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Offline Tiber

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Re: Any horse can?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2015, 09:53:20 PM »
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  • Could you try riding her bareback in the school?

    He loved it, and (after I'd got over the initial fear) so did I  :db:. We play around at lateral work (mostly leg yield, shoulder in and travers in walk, but some trot) and my balance is much improved as is my aiding (can't collapse or I'll slide off   ;) ) . His little (ok, big) ears flicker back and forth and he's so keen and interested and he tries so hard. I'm smiling too, and giving lots of verbal praise  (and occasionally treats). And even though it's in slow walk he's forward, mentally.
    I do ride him with a saddle in the school now too, but  try to put my brain in bareback mode, so we both chill out and have a good time  :)

    I used to ride Honey bareback lots too, and had great fun playing about doing things, so I'm putting this on just for fun. I think this turned out to be the last time I rode Honey before I retired her, and I was really pleased that she was walking through the mess the kids had left (I think it had started off as a space ship or a train), as she used to be really bad about stepping over things on the ground. At least we went out on a high.

    Honey, Pip and The Duckies in soggy mid-Wales.

    Offline Jo*

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #16 on: January 05, 2015, 10:25:30 PM »
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  • I whole heartedly agree with flying fox, you need to swing the scales from the school being a largely negative place to be, to being a place of positivity. Add positives and don't add any negatives and your horse's enjoyment of school work will come back :) Dressage should make the horse healthier, more mobile and install a sense of pride in the horse's work so I believe that any horse will benefit and can enjoy dressage if tackled appropriately.

    As a few of us are on here, I'm a dedicated clicker trainer and just adore the motivation and enjoyment it breeds in my horses. PM if you are interested in this, I won't write on here as you haven't asked specifically about this :)

    Keep on the path you are on, learning about equine behaviour, how horses learn and how to ride without blocking your horse and I'm sure you will have lots of fun together  :db:

    Offline Dora

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #17 on: January 06, 2015, 09:38:07 AM »
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  • I am so overwhelmed by your lovely replies.  Thankyou

    In France at Club level dressage most people use a De Gogue on their horses and nearly every test I have done the remarks have said 'Use a De Gogue next time'. 
    Also all tests have to be done in sitting trot which doesn't help.

    I am going to be brave here and upload two of our tests. 
    We came last with awful marks in both of them.  Please be kind as I know I am not the best rider in the world but I am passionate about my riding.
    The first vid shows our XC round as well (It was derby eventing) and you can see how forward and how she is really loving it.

    list=UUSJYfInIinSaEYe21NmTyEA&index=33

    This one was a very foggy day.
    list=UUSJYfInIinSaEYe21NmTyEA&index=30

    Offline SueC

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #18 on: January 06, 2015, 09:59:58 AM »
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  • I'm so cross I had to go and make myself a coffee before my head exploded.  :rant:

    The French dressage folk are even more stupid than the English ones!  They want riders at the beginning levels to bounce along too fast in sitting trot, hanging onto the reins, but while using a DeGogue to keep their horses' heads down?!!  Apoplectic I am!  :rant:

    And, Breathe..

    It's not your mare's fault that she appears not to be forward and doesn't like dressage, but enjoys her hacking and jumping.  It's the French Dressage communities' fault for making people and horses who aren't ready do sitting trot for the duration of their tests and use gadgets to hide it.

    You need to keep her very slow while you learn how to sit her trot and practice your sitting.  Can you put a strap on the front of your saddle to help you steady your hands?  It would make it so much easier for you I think.  Keep her very slow and practice a few steps at a time, in between trying your lateral work in your very, very slow walk and all the time hooking a finger or two through the strap on the front of your saddle.  Keep everything very slow and calm and really feel for what your riding is doing, how your mare is responding to you and what happens if you move a hip here, or a shoulder there (yours).

    Get Heather's book if you don't already have it.  It's free to a good home, just postage to be paid.

    http://www.hmsaddles.com/collections/books-and-dvds/products/enlightened-equitation-by-heather-moffett

    and go to Heather's video page on YouTube to watch her videos, you can just search Heather Moffett, or the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/enlighteneduk/videos

    Of particular interest to you to begin with might be:



    Offline SueC

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #19 on: January 06, 2015, 10:10:06 AM »
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  • Starting and training very slowly can be steadily and carefully built up, as rider and horse synchronise and the horse becomes stronger and lighter, learning to take the weight back and develop their paces under saddle. 

    Your mare looks lovely to me and I'm sure both you and she can develop a really good relationship and learn to enjoy yourselves in the school.  She looks stunning once you've forgotten the stupid dressage and are jumping, what a genuine girl  :wub: and you have a great attitude! :db: 

    Offline thecatsmother

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #20 on: January 06, 2015, 06:03:31 PM »
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  • Oh I love your horse  :wub: she's just my cup of tea, a gorgeous solid chunk (like my boy). And just like my boy, she looks like if she's being blocked, she really can't be arsed to go; whereas if she's motivated, she goes very happily (ie the jumping, which looks fab!)

    I too am appalled that they all ride in DeGogues and suggest you do. Talk about papering over the cracks in their riding basics  :sad:

    I agree with the suggestions re the strap on the saddle, and looking at Heather's video. But also I suggested above shaking it up in the school with a bit of bareback stuff. Here's a link to a video of me and Chocky playing around. As you can see, a nice slow trot (allowed when riding bareback  :whistle:) allows you to really feel each side of the horses back dip in turn, and playing at lateral work let me really concentrate on sitting up straight and learning how my weight and leg and shoulder and hand positions/aids influenced him. As you can see, we are very wobbly, I fail to support him with my outside leg in leg yield so he drifts, the halter has slipped too far down his nose, and thank goodness he's barefoot with all the standing on his own feet I ask him to do  :o , but he's interested and trying hard, he's not getting told off for doing it "wrong" (cos of course it's me asking wrong...), and it gave me a hell of a lot more confidence in me and him. (And I'm actually very pleased with the couple of steps of trot shoulder in at the start of the vid  :-[ )
    Worth considering having a go at something similar?
    « Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 06:09:40 PM by thecatsmother »
    Lesha, nr Exeter, Devon UK

    Chocky, Star, Port, & Hal (all RIP), Arai, Augusta, Ash, Foggy, Daisy Doglet & Finnegan

    Beth

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #21 on: January 06, 2015, 06:34:06 PM »
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  • Oh Dora she is gorgeous!  :wub:  I'm quite certain that if you stop trying so hard and go into the school and experiment a bit with what the others here have suggested, she will surprise you!  I hope you've had a chance to look at the youtube videos that SueC has put up.  Heather's methods are so simple but very effective. 

    I've only ever ridden my pony EE style.  He is a very forward going and responsive pony normally. As an experiment I tried gripping a bit and shovelling with my seat, and the poor love put his  :cc_confused: face on and ground to a halt.  I know if I tried doing a whole test in sitting trot I'd get tired/tense and we'd both seize up, and everything would go horribly wrong and we'd get far worse marks than you.

    That XC looks like fun - I am envious of your bravery.  Used to event at PC and RC level, but now I'm ecstatic if I make it over a cross pole alive.  Nerves are shot, its pathetic, but I'm working on it!

    Love your videos Tiber and TCM  :db:

    Offline Tiber

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #22 on: January 06, 2015, 06:52:48 PM »
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  • I think your mare looks lovely,  and the French dressage rules sound rather silly to say the least... :rant:

    I think I'd do lots of practising nice slow sitting trot out hacking (for a few strides at a time) and stick with doing fun stuff in the school for a bit. Watch Heather's videos and only try to do a few strides at a time - and remember to say well done to yourself as well as your lovely horse when it works.

    The videos showed us the full picture. You will get there with her, and then you can smirk proudly at the trainer who wrote her off, secure in the knowledge that you are a better trainer than him.  :whistle:

    Lesha, your video is fab.  :wub:

    And like Beth I was explaining to someone how EE is different to traditional riding once and started riding Honey using 'normal' aids. She went all tense, turned the wrong way a few times and quickly ground to a halt - then turned round to look at me with a  :cc_confused: look on her face. It was a brilliant demonstration!  :laugh:

    Honey, Pip and The Duckies in soggy mid-Wales.

    Beth

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #23 on: January 06, 2015, 07:08:46 PM »
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  •  and then you can smirk proudly at the trainer who wrote her off, secure in the knowledge that you are a better trainer than him.  :whistle:

    YES!  :party:  :db:  :nod:  ;)

    Offline Dora

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #24 on: January 06, 2015, 07:34:45 PM »
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  • Thank you all for your lovely comments about my beautiful Tequila.  She is a bit of a superstar and I love her to bits.  She does try her best but often I confuse her.

    I have Heathers book, it arrived last week and I have spent all afternoon watching her videos and yours TCM.  I haven't quite got my head around it all yet but I promise I am going to keep trying with her.

    I really do want to sort out the schooling and dressage things because I am looking at giving up jumping because I had a nasty fall doing XC this year and it kinda made me realise I really do not bounce at all.  It wasn't her fault, far from it.  She jumped a log pile so big she just jumped me right out of the saddle and I just couldn't get my balance back.

    I am starting Pilates next week and also losing some weight so that should help.
    I find that sitting trot out hacking is much easier and I dont bounce so badly.  A lot of the bounce is because I am so tense.  I find my nerves get the better of me.

    Thanks everyone for your input and giving me loads to think about with my gorgeous girl.  I am taking it all on board and will be reading and youtubing as much as I can.


    Offline Flyingfox

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #25 on: January 06, 2015, 07:38:44 PM »
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  •   :wub: Here is another fan of your beautiful horse.   :wub:

    I was once told that my big appaloosa x Irish draught horse, Flying Fox was not suitable for dressage as he was too lazy, too clumsy, croup high, long backed, heavy fronted and he is a stress headshaker who easily becomes an angry horse if pressured more than he thinks is OK.
     I was advised to sell him more than once but that isnt my style. He works nicely now and he is forwards off the leg (he cantered yesterday when I was asking quietly for a walk trot transition with my calf)  and he is picking up counted walk and making some piaffe steps quite well now.
     I prefer to work with the material I have, and bring out the best possible in that horse. It might take longer to help a horse to realise his or her potential when he or she hasnt been blessed with the easiest body or mind, but if you are happy to take a scenic route and enjoy the journey the extra time isnt such a problem as you will learn so much on the way.

    Remember, training a horse is an art and not a science.

    Whereabouts  are you in France, maybe I will know a good trainer near enough to you who I could recommend.
    Its not what you do, but the way that you do it.

    ’If the horse is trained by force, force will be required to ride it.’
    – Egon von Neindorff

    Offline thecatsmother

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #26 on: January 06, 2015, 08:15:39 PM »
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  • I really do want to sort out the schooling and dressage things because I am looking at giving up jumping because I had a nasty fall doing XC this year and it kinda made me realise I really do not bounce at all.  It wasn't her fault, far from it.  She jumped a log pile so big she just jumped me right out of the saddle and I just couldn't get my balance back.

    I'm with you on the jumping  :nod: I have jumped higher in the past (when I'd not long started riding and was swept along in group lessons, staying on through luck rather than judgement) but after a few nasty falls completely lost my confidence, and pretty much gave up riding until I discovered Heather.

    It took me about 8 years to get even this far, but this is the highest jumping I've ever done with Chocky :)

     









    Lesha, nr Exeter, Devon UK

    Chocky, Star, Port, & Hal (all RIP), Arai, Augusta, Ash, Foggy, Daisy Doglet & Finnegan

    Offline Dora

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #27 on: January 06, 2015, 08:20:10 PM »
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  • I am in the South West in the Dordogne. 
    I love jumping and love competing too, it doesn't matter what I am doing, TREC, Derby Cross, Derby Eventing, One Day Eventing,  Hunter classes which are jumping but marked on style and turnout as well, showjumping etc but my first love is dressage and schooling.

    What is counted walking.  I have seen that referred to a couple of times.  I had a quick skim through Heathers book but couldn't see anything.

    Offline CarolineJ

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #28 on: January 06, 2015, 08:27:30 PM »
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  •  :wave: Another 'your mare is gorgeous' vote from me  :nod: :nod: :nod:

    Offline SueC

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    Re: Any horse can?
    « Reply #29 on: January 06, 2015, 08:42:08 PM »
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  • To give you an idea of the counted walk, although here it's being used to teach Monty piaffe, you can clearly see the counted walk steps that Heather teaches.  :D  I'm not sure it's in her current book, it will be in the next one that she's writing at the moment though.