Contact..arghh?

[Dark Cloud]

Hi Heather Hi all .
Ive had a recent adjustment to my level of rein contact (Im now taking a shorter & stronger contact) which by seeing the way Toby was going previously (on Video) I understand why this was neccessary because the reins really were too long and he wasn't working correctly and was getting stronger in the brachiocephalic muscle. But Im kinda freaking out that Im not doing it right and Im forcing the horse into a frame. If you read my Toby's Diary (last Dark cloud entry) in horse training you can see where we are at and I dont think its a bad place, he/we feel much better than before, but Im nervous about it all. Heather felt my level of contact with Toby's mouth and he has been working well and we are now doing nice shoulder ins at the trot and changes of rein are good but Im just not sure... Maybe Im just freaking out?? Also, since Ive come back from the weekend clinic he will walk away from me if he sees the saddle??? Is he just afraid of the hard work or what???
Heather can you help me?? Oh has any one heard of an Australian-Portuguese Instructor, Miguel Tavora?? I really want to go at least once a month to a Instructor who can teach the rider AND the horse side of things. I really need to have lessons to improve and be reassured Im going the right direction. The lesson with Heather has inspired me .

[Heather]

Hi Jade,

Sorry not to answer yet- had a 14 hour flight back from Hong Kong ( delayed by 3 hrs as well) yesterday followed by a 200 mile drive home immediately afterwards. Have been feeling rather woozy today, jet lag has finally caught up with me.

Too tired to answer in any detail!

Heather

[Dark Cloud]

No worries Heather, glad you got back in one piece sans any creepie crawlie encounters. Take your time. Jade

[Pip]

I think "contact" is the most difficult thing to fully understand.  Some horses seem to like "more" than others to.  I am with you on this.

[shoveltrash]

i found your thread DC!

i've read that young horses are 'heavy' with contact at first, and then lighten as they get stronger.......not sure how true this is, but i went thru the SAME THING with my boy, and 'contact.'  i kept riding with too long reins (thinking i was staying "light").  instructor made me take up the reins, which in turn made me feel bad because it there was much more weight in the contact.  
fast forward to now, and my youngster has finally started rounding up thru the back & getting stronger.
not much of answer, eh? :lol:
but i know how you're feeling!
i look forward to Heather's reply
 

[smileyginger]

I'm also wanting to hear.  Trying to find the balance between "healthy" contact and "too strong" is challenging.

[epona]

Hi Dark Cloud

I havent any answers either :lol:   I too have been waiting for an educated answer.

but i went thru the SAME THING with my boy, and 'contact.' i kept riding with too long reins (thinking i was staying "light"). instructor made me take up the reins, which in turn made me feel bad because it there was much more weight in the contact.

Trish, I did exactly the same thing   My instructor has also told me to take up the contact more.  I suppose I am so worried about spoiling her as she is such a blank slate, I tend to go the other way and dont 'push' her enough???

So good question Dark Cloud!

Vicky
 

[hinny_heart]

A small excerpt from http://www.horsemagazine.com/CLINIC/T/TAVO...UEL/Tavora.html

Miguel Tavora
- A life with horses
Miguel was born in Lisbon, Portugal, and at the age of eight commenced his equestrian studies with the famous riding master, Nuno Oliveira. He rode with Nuno until he was eighteen years old, when he went to the Military Academy where he competed extensively in eventing and showjumping.
When he was 28 years old Miguel took the cavalry instructor's course and because he passed with over 75%, he went on to complete a Master's Course, and was then appointed as the chief instructor of the equestrian division of the Maffra School.
By this time, Miguel was mainly competing in dressage.
In 1982, at the age of 39, Miguel migrated to Australia. Since then he has produced about twelve Grand Prix dressage horses and established himself as one of our most sought after trainers, conducting clinics all around Australia, and more recently, in the United States.
His equestrian philosophy in one sentence?
"That is very difficult in a single sentence. We need to do things correctly, we can't compromise - classical and academic is nothing more than correct and rational. We have to think what the question is... You have to enjoy, and if you enjoy you learn, and if you learn, then you enjoy more."

[JenT]

Since I have been taking more contact with my boy I understand.  It is a lot harder in his new frame so I give lots of breaks so his muscles don't "knot-up".  I know when he gets heavy feeling, I ask for a few steps of lightness then give him a short break, 1-2 minutes on longer or long rein, letting his muscles relax.  My work time keeping him in this new frame is steadily increasing.  It is just a matter of building strength.  He is lifting his withers, freeing his shoulder and coming under more, it is very exciting.  (I always ask for lightness(relaxing jaw) at the halt first, without that he can't be light in walk, trot or canter)

JenT

[Dark Cloud]

Oh Thanks guys now I dont feel so alone in my worries. Its great to know so many of you have had the same concerns and processes! Thanks too Micheala for that write on Miguel Tavora, guess who I went and sussed out today? The man himself. I watch his wife, and 21yr old daughter ride their horses and then two lessons that Miguel Tavora gave. He is very portuguese and both he and his wife have a quiet, reserved but commanding presence but have already sussed out that they are softies at heart and love the horses. He seems to be a horse trainer and focusses on movements rather than the rider, but then again all the riders were pretty advanced (Funny how your eye really gets tuned to the riders position after a Heathers clinic) but still wobbly in the middle...
He is a positive teacher and is not afraid to give encouragement. I am pretty sure I'll go down for a lesson Toby in the next 2wks. He has signed pictures of Olivera in his arena, Olivera at his arena opening in OZ etc its pretty impressive. The arena has a really intimate and family feel to it, and you are really close to the horses as they work. He has some magnificent Luso stallions there and the horses I saw them ride were all very soft, supple and on the aids. I dont know if Ill get much help on MY position but I think Ill learn an enormous amount about riding and trainning a horse. Excited :P .  

[Heather]

Your own riding is good Jade- I didnt have to correct you as much for wobbling as some of the other riders!! Just think of that 'core stability' that I kept on about. You have the advantage too that you now know what you are looking at re: the rider, yet the odd thing is, that so few trainers, even of Tavora's level, would actually see anything wrong with the rider if they are wobbling in the middle.

It was such a pleasure to teach such open minded people, especially professionals like Sue Broster, Tibby, and Alex, who is riding Intermediare 1. Alex has written a lovely review for Northside, and we are hoping she can visit here when she is over in the summer.



Great bunch and sorry you are all so far away!!

Heather

 

[hinny_heart]

Great bunch and sorry you are all so far away!!

That's the ONLY thing that may, or will, make me leave Oz  ...

[Dark Cloud]

Sigh... The tyranny of distance. :( . Thanks Heather, I hope Mr Tavora turns out well, I was thinking of trying to organise a clinic with Richard Weis who is now back in Australia, from the small amount Ive read he has some similar concepts as you Heather and is very rider and position focussed.

[tessa]

this is such a good question and something that i am real issues with at the moment

in the last few months i have been using a new instructor who has been trying to get my horse to come up more in front through the shoulder / wither

we are now building up some really nice muscles and everyone comments on how well she is going as the trot looks much bigger with more power and lift

however i do have an issue with the amount of contact that i have as personally i just feel it is too strong

how does one know whether there is too much contact?  as i am very scared of hurting my baby!

i have been told that lightness will only come when they have learned to carry themself in the frame which you have allowed them to? is this correct? do you have to move through this transitional period in order to step up a gear?

does anyone have any enlightening ideas?

   

[christuris]

Dark Cloud, you should join Coralie Smythe's yahoo list -- RationalRiding -- where she is absolutely committed to riding in lightness in Oz.  I've heard Miguel's name mentioned on that list.   She has a great book out which follows the progress of a wannabe Grand Prix rider.  Very refreshing.

how does one know whether there is too much contact? as i am very scared of hurting my baby!

i have been told that lightness will only come when they have learned to carry themself in the frame which you have allowed them to? is this correct? do you have to move through this transitional period in order to step up a gear?

Tessa, I dislike strong contact as well, and I hate it when I'm told to shorten my reins!  It seems to me that the horse shouldn't be taught to depend on the contact, and it's too strong if the rider were to lose balance if the contact were to be suddenly dropped.  The horse should be able to carry itself in self carriage also, and not fall on the forehand when the contact is dropped.  I think that's the test.

The Baucher philosophy holds, among other things, that there should be separation and release of the aids, no maintaining aids.  You ask for something, then release.  And don't use two opposing aids at once (none of this "go/don't go" stuff).  The jaw submission and lateral flexions should help develop the lightness, not holding the horse up with strong contact, in my view anyway.  I find the occasional light vibration of the fingers very useful in helping keep the jaw relaxed, hence the rest of the body.

Christina
Indian Hills, Colorado
www.AlphabetRanch.com