Comte D'aure

[Heather]

Was just re-reading a bit of Hilda Nelson's wonderful book, 'Francois Baucher, The Man and His Method', prior to lending it toworking student Anna. I have all three staff coming round for supper tonight and to watch the Phillippe Karl DVD's that I bought a couple of weeks ago, Phillippe being probably one of the comparatively few well known adherents to Baucherist techniques practising today.

I flipped through Nelson's book, only to land on page 90, showing a picture of the Comte D'Aure on a TB in piaffe, but clearly showing a head and neck position which could have been a modern competition rider warming up in rolkur. I had quite forgotten about this photo- have been trawling the Net today to try to find it online, but no success- and remember being quite shocked when I first saw it some years ago, as it seemed so opposite to the theories that Baucher was teaching, that of raising the head and elevating the neck.

This pic clearly shows the horse very overbent, chin close to the base of the neck, OK- I know that paintings can be exaggerated and stylised but I get the feeling that this is a fairly accurate representation of the way D'Aure is riding.

Anyone else got this book?


Heather

[Chelle]

No I dont have that book, but I think I will try and find it

[pintopiaffe]

well, but...

Haven't seen the picture, but one of Baucher's flexions IS rollkur.

One of the flexions--but I believe it was first school, not second--is to overbend the horse until it swallows/chews.  It can be done either laterally or 'deep.'   I actually use the lateral version quite often.  We do "toe touches" for warmup.  Or, sometimes, when things are just not going well, we'll do a toe touch and sugar reward.  It's cheating to get a chew-swallow, but it's still a chew-swallow, and more often than not, it works.

Sometimes a horse will get very deep before actually GIVING in the TMG/Axis etc.

Is it correct? No.  Is it the middle step? yes.

And if one is teaching impulsive flexion for extensions, then I can see how with a stallion who isn't cooperating, you'd pretty much end up with some rollkur.  Flexions in motion--extreme flexions--being so much... MORE... than the flexions in hand or at the halt.

(how's THAT for theorizing before my second cuppa without even seeing the picture! lol!)

Do you like the Karl videos?  I worked very briefly with JC Racinet, who is also one of the few Baucherists left.  To watch him work a horse in hand was life-changing.  

 

[Heather]

Hi Jaeme,

Yes one of the Baucher flexions was this, but did he advocate practising it whilst riding piaffe?! I really must read the books again.

Yes I know of Jean-Claude, a couple of friends of mine used to ride with him in the States and I have his books too.

I posted a thread about the Philippe Karl DVD's which I think I will move now to this forum, where it might be more appropriate!!

Our US representative, Pierre Cousyn trained with Phillippe, but Pierre, though French is not a fan of Baucherist methods, and has perhaps moved away from Phillippe's teaching. As Pierre will be a member here, as soon as he can work out how to join  :lol: - ( computers are not his strongest point!!)- he may well have some theories to expound on why.


Heather

[christuris]

I tend to put much more credence in Baucher's second method.  So I tend to dismiss what was written about that first period.  His greatness surely comes in his second method.

Things like release of the aids, legs without hand, hand without legs, no conflicting aids, etc.  Jean Claude Racinet expounds admirably on all these things, including the chiropractic benefits of the flexions.

But my reason for responding was to mention that Compte d'Aure and Francois Baucher were antagonists, not only personally but in their methods of training.  So it surprises me greatly that you would see a photo like that in Hilda Nelson's book explaining Baucher, unless it were to show the different methods of the time.

I recently bought Hilda's book on General L'Hotte, who did incorporate Baucher's methods into his own training.  I can't wait to get into it...

Christina
Indian Hills, Colorado
www.AlphabetRanch.com

[Heather]

Also an excellent book Christina, I have that too!!

Heather