Becky's First Level 2 Workshop

[Heather]

.............for those who could make it, due to the snow. I wasnt able to sit in this time, as too many emails and stuff to catch up with after the workshop this week, but great feedback from those attending.

In particular, Susan Callam, who stayed on after the EE workshop, flying back to Scotlland tomorrow, had already done some CT, but stopped Becky before she left tonight to say that calling these 'Clicker training workshops' is a misnomer. She said that Becky should call them or something different, as she said it covered so much more than just mere clicker training. Susan is an analyst by profession, just the sort of person I love to teach, as I am too, an analyst by nature!

She was very impressed with Becky's knowledge, her ability to combine horse behaviour/psychology, with the skill of in hand and long rein work, which she carries over into her ridden training, the behaviour/movements being taught being shaped by the use of the positive reinforcement.

Susan feels that CT sadly has gathered too many connotations of trick training, whereas what Becky is doing is true Classical training, using positive reinforcment. She feels we should think up another title for it. When Becky starts doing two day workshops next year, I do not want people to be misled into thinking that there is any trick training involved- nothing could be further from trick training! We use pure gymnastic conditioning of the horse, to strengthen muscles and joints, improve paces and suppleness, following a logical training process, based on both Portguese/French and German classical schools, depending on the horse's requirements.

Any suggestions as to what to call it?

Heather

[Ebyss]

With all due respect, "trick training" has a very dirty name for no good reason. What on earth is wrong with "trick training" anyway? Is not all training by definition a "trick" for human amusement? All training is pos and neg reinforcement and conditioning. That goes for showjumping, dressage, circus performances, hacking, standing still for clipping. Anyone who has ever seen Mario Luraschi at work couldn't call him a "mere" trick trainer, and yet he is a stunt horseman, but what a rider and trainer!

However, I understand that some people just cannot get beyond the idea that CT is trick training, and in their eyes that is a bad thing.

Why not go back to basics and call it "Positive Reinforcement training" (bit of a mouthful I suppose, you could always shorten it to PRT).

Being the stubborn sort that I am, I would change the name to Trick Training just to annoy people  :P
 

[Heather]

I know what you mean!! But dont want to limit the number of people wanting to learn from Becky!

You know, its funny,the difference one word can make. When I first started doing courses with real horses, rather than simulators,  here in Devon, 15 years ago, I advertised 'Courses in the Classical dressage seat'. I didnt get one reply. Now, Classical riding at the time, was pooh poohed by the dressage hierarchy, and some exponents at the time, also gave it a bad name.

So I changed one word of my advert from 'Classical' to 'Continental', thus, 'The Continental Dressage Seat', and I got plenty of enquiries and the courses took off. So, its all down to words, when it comes to equestrian snobbery, for want of a better term!


Heather

[hinny_heart]

Being the stubborn sort that I am, I would change the name to Trick Training just to annoy people 

I agree - but I describe myself as contrary rather than stubborn!

What handier tricks are there for a horse to learn, than to lift up its feet to be cleaned, to stand still to be clipped and to lower its head for the bridle and open its mouth for the bit?
 

[Ebyss]

How about Equine Ethology? *sniggers*

Actually, I'm half serious. Reinforcement is a well researched part of ethology and comparative psychology. It's classic Pavlovian/Skinner stuff, rock solid in terms of scientific application.

Equine Comparative Psychology (although, you couldn't trademark it, being an established branch of science )
Equine Behaviour Study
Equine Reinforcement Training
Equine Classical Conditioning (which is what CT essentially is, Classical or Pavlovian conditioning along with Operant Conditioning. It also fits in nicely with the "Classical" style of riding)

[Numbat]

Sounds like how you've been describing Enlightened Equitation for a long time, with CT added in. So why muddy the waters thinking up yet more new names for stuff? Seems to me it's just EE evolving to take on board new developments in training techniques.

[whisper's mum]

I'm not sure what name would help encourage people to attend but I do agree that it was a wonderful day!  

When I lay in bed on Saturday morning, having had a very busy week, I contemplated ringing up and cancelling and probably would have, had I not known that it was going to be well worth the effort of the drive down from Worcestershire.

I did the 1st  level 1 course and this was even better in many ways because we saw Becky working with a connie mare who had many "issues" and Anna on Merlin (who is STUNNING!!!) I learnt so much from watching her work with both horses, Becky has such a lovely calm and quiet approach  and the horses responded beautifully and improved quite dramatically during the sessions.  

We then watched Becky workking with the ever cheeky (and gorgeous) Fanta, who did his best to show Becky up at the start but by the end was working beautifully and trying his heart out for her  

Thank you Becky (and Heather!) for a lovely day and it was great to meet more forum members  
 

[Susan C]

Hello all - no more lurking!

Finally made it home after a 4 hour delay at Exeter! - Home by midnight!

I still maintain that Becky is underselling the course by calling it a clicker training workshop.  I signed up for the workshop very much on the basis that I was down all ready for the rider training course and had done a bit of clicker stuff with my horses to use a very smart little horse's brain which have a bit of relevance to what I had been doing already, what I got was a really interesting horse training course which I can't wait to use in my own horses' training.

I have absolutely nothing against "trick training".  In fact, the "tricks" my horses will do have been very helpful, (drinking on demand, coming to a target, picking up any leg by name, peeing on command (very useful that one!) the list continues..)  However, Becky's course was much more than that and was really a horse training techniques workshop rather than just how to clicker train your horse.  

I just feel that by labeling the course as a clicker training course, it excludes a lot of people who would be very interested in the groundwork, long reining, loose schooling and under saddle work that we covered on Saturday.  I know that people may use their own form of positive reinforcement when training, but may not have labeled it as "clicker training" and as such may not realise just what a valuable resource Becky's courses could be to the training of their own horses.  I event my horses (amongst other things) and can guarantee that most eventers will do anything to improve their dressage, few would think that a "clicker training" course would be of any use in their eternal quest for extra marks!

The fact that we are discussing this in the clicker training forum is case in point - there are many people who have no interest in clicker training per se but would be very interested in training their horse the "enlightened equitation" way, which is exactly what Becky's course achieves. The horse training forum is actually just as relevant a place to be discussing Becky's course which is obviously highly recommended to all - not just those with a pre-existing interest in it.  Clicker training is merely one aspect of a very enjoyable course!

Gosh rather a long first post!
Susan
 

[Ebyss]

Hi Sue! Well, with what you've said in mind, how about changing it to just : Groundwork Training. Simple, people know what it is, it applies to lots of different aspects of training, not just CT. It's a little cumbersome, but self explanatory and, most importantly, familiar.

EEGT : Enlightened Equitation Groundwork Training.

[Anna]

Whisper's Mum, thanks for your lovely comments about Merlin being stunning.  Yes, I think he is too, but then I'm rather biased!!  

Susan, great post, I agree with you!

Ebyss, the only thing is Becky (and Heather) use clicker training under saddle (which is where I and my horse Merlin were used to help demonstrate) just as much as from the ground, so we need a name that incorporates that as well.

I really quite like "Enlightened Equitation Horse Training" (sorry can't remember who came up with that before).  To my mind that is kind of a "just what it says on the tin" type name - it's simply the EE way of training horses.  

[Heather]

Great post Susan!! And yes, I agree with all you say, it is not mere 'clicker training', and I think that you are right, the use of the term would put off some people who expect it just to be target training etc.

Becky's workshop is even more than just training itself, it is understanding the behaviour and body language, and then using that with positive reinforcement, to shape the training itself,if you get what I mean? So yes, this forum should really be the 'horse training' one. I am wondering now, if by having a separate forum, some riders are missing out on Becky's advice, because they do not think it is relevant to them?

Heather

[cremello]

Heather/Becky

Sorry I had to miss it, hubby made it home Saturday afternoon, only to fly back up this morning, Glasgow this time so weather isn't as bad.

When's the next course, I'd love to bring Max, I think Becky would have great fun with him, unfortunalty it takes about 4 hours for me to drive, so you can imagine how long it would take in the horse box

Perhaps I'll come and kidnap her with the promise of free booze, fun and board for a week :P    

[Becky holden]

Thank you all for your lovely comments, i really enjoy these workshops and had lots of fun at this one! I thimk Fanta did two!!!! :lol:

and can guarantee that most eventers will do anything to improve their dressage, few would think that a "clicker training" course would be of any use in their eternal quest for extra marks!

This is what i like about schooling this way yout horse looks forward to it as much as feed time or being turned out into their field, yesterday Rei marched over to me when he saw me with his saddle. He hadn't been worked for a couple of days and his expression defiantly said "about time too!!" :lol:  :lol:

Cremello..... free booze im on my way!! :lol:  :lol:

becky


 

[Susan C]

I am wondering now, if by having a separate forum, some riders are missing out on Becky's advice, because they do not think it is relevant to them?

I think that is definitely the case - if you look at the number of views on clicker topics and those on horse training there are a vast number more for each horse training thread and really enlightened equitation horse training sums up what becky is doing and as such definitely fits in the horse training forum.  

I may not be popular with some hard core clicker trainers who want their own forum but I reckon bey making it mainstream you have nothing to lose and everything to gain!

Cremello..... free booze im on my way!! 

Becky if thats all it takes get yourself on a plane up here and come and play with my smarty pants pair! (If this was on the main forum this would be immediately followed with a stampede of scots saying come NOW!)(must be cheap flights up here from somewhere!)

[Danni]

Maybe there could be a sub-forum within the Horse Training Forum?

But it is nice having a clicker forum, and also to be able to ask Becky for her help, I reckon as the next few months pass I will be posting in here more and more, as I will be limited in the ridden schooling I can do at the new yard!  Will be practising loading, standing still, lifting our feet, and other fun things