Advice needed - Trainer using side reins on young horse?

[debutante]

Im just wondering what people thoughts on this are.

I have dont little work  with my now 3 1/2 year old in the way of grown up training , i moved to my recent yard at the end of summer and the yard owner helped me get him lunging as most people think its law that he should be ridden this year! yes he needs something doing with him however im not in any rush i would rather things be done correctly.

However my new-ish trainer reccomended by said yard owner comes to help me with my mare rides her and gives me lessons on her (i lost my way with it all  ) just to add wish wish wish i could have an ee teacher but at £50 a session inc travel i could not afford it. currently getting charged £12.50 for 30 - 40 mins which i know is false economy as i would love to ride and be taught the ee way , but the horses need educating above my means and need excersise.

Sorry back to the point in question the trainer came to ride my mare however her feet were not quite right we expect bruised sole from the hard ground but she seems fine now, so i suggested she could have a little play with my gelding instead as we do need to get doing something with him, i explained what i had done in the way of light lunging and i had done alot of free schooling with clicker training of late which seems to of paid off! so on went the roller + bridle (i explained he had only been lunged off a cavesson before no roller etc) he has had one on in stable etc and bridle to get used to the feel but has done no work in these. She clipped side reins to the roller? i thought she was just putting them on to be there. In the school he went like a vetran on the right rein and the halts which he picked up from clicker training were great i was soo proud , then the left rein all went to pot didnt like her on that side of him , she was being kind but things just got a little bit hectic. I asked her to put him back on the other rein and to leave it on a good note as i explained at the start of the session he has a short attention span and 15 mins would do it for a while. However she said no as he will be worse next time etc so on went the side reins! she tried again and resorted to leading him in hand after ta=hat from the bad rein and doing small circles progressing to big ones so all ended well ish.

I had also suggested that next session we just go straight to long lining to avoid all this as im a huge beliver in long lining being better especcially for young horses as you can steer them better , they dont tend to come in at you as you have an outside rein, you can go large round the school etc. Its just i struggle and doubt myself and feel im not qualified to say!

I must stress the trainer was never nasty as i would not allow this and the side reins were loose not doing much however i feel far too early for side reins if they even have a place - just in my experience have never used them, but we chatted later after the session about him maybe being bad on the left rein as youngsters are so used to doing things on the same rein and maybe stiff on the opposite side and i thought well why the side reins then, she is due again this week i dont want to sound funny but if i think side reins shouldnt be used i would like reasons why and to know am i right in thinking this way.

Look forward to your answers thank-you for reading 

[yvonnemzz]

Hello, Where are you based?

[spottygiraffe]

Its just i struggle and doubt myself and feel im not qualified to say!

I would trust your instincts on this one. I completely understand why you don't want to speak up, it's really hard, but if your trainer is suggesting things you're not happy with then you should probably either mention it or try to find someone who you feel more akin to. I know that's easier said than done! Would you be able to work on your own for a bit and save up for an EE lesson?

[Della]

Hello Debutante

I would venture to say that you have not received many replies to your post so far because most people reading it will be horrified.

Going by what you have posted I would strongly suggest that you do not try to have all sorts of reasons ready to 'defend' your position. Superficial responses without proper understanding of the logic on which they are based can easily be 'shouted down'.

Instead, do not have any further lessons from this trainer. Spend your time quietly with your horses, doing what you are all comfortable with. Try not to feel pressurised by others in the yard, they will eventually leave you to get on with things in your own way.

Read and reread some basic texts about horse behaviour and how you can interact with your  horses (eg Richard Maxwell's works). The basis of all horse training lies here. The fancy stuff can be added later!


Save up for lessons from someone who you have watched teach others and who you know is working along the lines you want to work.

Finally get your gelding looked at as he is displaying typical signs of discomfort on one rein.

I hope that you do not think I am being patronising. I do symphathise with you if you are in a yard where the sort of horse training you have described is accepted as normal and correct. It is not!

[thecatsmother]

just to add wish wish wish i could have an ee teacher but at £50 a session inc travel i could not afford it. currently getting charged £12.50 for 30 - 40 mins which i know is false economy as i would love to ride and be taught the ee way , but the horses need educating above my means and need excersise.

Seriously an EE lesson every month would give you plenty to go and practice with on your own, and allow you to progress more  . And, sadly, if this particular trainer continues with you and your horse, I suspect you'll end up needing to spend more money, whether it be on vets bills, physio for your horse, etc. An EE instructor/lesson will make you feel better about yourself and your horse, and even if you do "progress" more slowly with fewer lessons, I suspect your horse will thank you for it  

Continue building up your relationship with your boy, using clicker etc (it's fab  ) and go with your heart  

[happy-horses]

Hi Debutante  
If you don't want side reins on, loose or otherwise, I would just tell the instructor how you feel. Explain your reasons (if you use the search button there are many interesting threads on here discussing both sides of the side rein argument), and discuss other options you are happy with (like long reining as you have already mentioned)  
If you otherwise like your instructor and they are experienced brining on young horses in a kind and fair manor, and they listen to you and your horses, then I wouldn't write them off.
Its difficult to find help   and as you say cost is a major factor to consider. If you are able to save up for additional lessons then I would really recommend Becky Holden if she comes to your area. She uses clicker and is fantastic  

[ros]

Great reply, Della  

It's so easy to be pressured into doing things you aren't comfortable with. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt  

Not sure why you say the horses need educating beyond your needs? As long as they're pleasant to ride and happy to be ridden the rest is negotiable. And bear in mind that a lot of people who do win dressage competitions win because the judges don't know what they should be looking for!   You can learn a lot from Heather's book/dvd - just playing about with feel and so on. You don't need to be able to do a half pass to be able to open a gate or get your horse to stand while you clamber on from a wobbly fence   and at the end of the day those are the things that matter.

[yvonnemzz]

Ros you are so right. Especially the bit about the dressage competitions.

[Bradders]

I have cringed (well actually, nearly cried!) during a session with a trainer, so I so know ehere you are comign from - it is so hard to find the courage to say "no"

But, at the end of the day, you are her customer and she should do as you ask. It sounds like you have made brilliant progress on your own so far, so I would be tempted to potter along on your own, and get some EE lessons when you can afford them

[yvonnemzz]

You could also send a video lesson of yourself to Heather. Would be much better value for your money.

[blazenashe]

I have just had my first EE lesson with Yvonne.....I live out in the wilds of Lincolnshire so I have to pay extra for travel.......but I feel it is worth the extra expense,the lesson was brill and Y so boosted my confidence I can't afford it every week,so I'm content to have one every 2/3 wks...at least I get to practise inbetween ....so maybe you could do similar?

[debutante]

Hello, Where are you based?

Hi Yvonne im based in North West Lancashire ages away from anyone a bit different it seems :0/

[debutante]

Hi Everyone,

Thank-you for your response and understanding, Im a big beliver in constructive critisism so have not felt patronised etc.

I feel all your responses are fair thank-you , in answer to ros I suppose i feel they need educating beyond my needs 1 mainly due to my own huge lack confidence with them i suppose, I have the feeling that i shouldnt questions others more experienced but the other part of me cringes and hates what i see as i know there are better farer ways and that i should listen to myself and my instincts as you say. I suppose pressure has a big part to play right now, as before i moved to this yard i had another trainer who i got along with and did like she was very kind and fair (the yard owner where i am thought she was a little airy fairy) the only thing i didnt like about this trainer as we seemed to keep having session upon session with her riding my horse but didnt feel like we were progressing any at all alot of walk etc (sorry i know theres alot to be said from the walk and alot comes from here but we were going over old ground alot) so then again you start wondering about value for money and then everytime my horses showed some good moments in walk she would ride her into the centre of the school where i was sat and ask me to give her a treat this then led to my very clever greedy pony learning she could wrap this trainer around her hoof! Again like i say im in no real rush but feel when your paying money and you need to progress your horses you have to take it all into account, so back to the current yard owner she was always slating this current trainer from what she knew from questions she had asked me and was saying i was having the micky taken out of me! she reccomended the girl i have now, i saw her work with her own horses and my Yo's but another thing when she was working my tubby not very fit or supple pony on say the 3rd session she was working her well into the corners taking right angles the pony got sore twice after and i thought it looked muscilar and questioned why she did this and could she take it easy with her taking less circles too etc she replied it saves having to teach it them in the further down the line if you do it from the start which i found rather odd (as in why not teach them piaffe , spanish walk as soon as you back them it saves doing it further down the line!!) although in some ways she takes a no nonsense approach and has got my little mare going well i also dont like the contact she has as my mare seems to bear down into it and i dont want her getting strong and on the forehand too much again then another job to sort out - but i ask her things and am left thinking what do i know.

I suppose in short i have answered my question myself but then i have that awful feeling of being stuck in a rut one with how do you broach the subject of stopping the sessions and two where do i go from here? as she was going to help me get him walking on the roads something in which i have worried about confidence wise to as he can be a bit of a b****r with me a rears etc (sitting her with knots in my stomach - also wishing there was more ee people in my area :0(  - Thank-you again for taking the time to read hope the above makes sense 

[spottygiraffe]

Perhaps she could still help you with roadwork and other aspects from time to time so that you don't have the embarrassment of having to stop having lessons from her completely and then maybe try to have the odd EE lesson if there's a way that can be worked out.

I know how daunting it is on your own -I have the horses at home and don't live near any like-minded trainers, but I have found so much help from friends online and have learned just to have a play and see what works. If you video yourself then I'm sure some clever people on here would be happy to give feedback from time to time.

Good luck and although you might not live near any EE members the internet makes the world a small place.

[yvonnemzz]

I am in North Yorkshire and am an EET (Trainee). It might be possible to travel to you for a lesson if you want to give me specific details of you address or postcode so I could work out travel rates.