Imprint glue ons for laminitics - thoughts please

[SueWhitmore]

As title. I am concerned U is not getting enough support with hoof boots, but I'd really appreciate knowing what you barefoot experts think, as the advice I have received on this board has been invaluable in the past.

http://www.imprintshoes.co.uk/laminitis/laminitis_the_condition_and_treatment.htm

[lacey]

Have a look at the Epona Shoe, particularly the glue and casting method for no nails http://www.eponashoe.com/products/castinghooks.htm
I have just received some for one of my mares and will be getting fitted soon

[SueWhitmore]

Thanks lacey, but I don't want to use anything that penetrates the hoof wall. I really wanted to know what opinion the barefoot trimmers on here have of using plastic glue ons to give relief to a laminitic.

[rvialls]

I'm not a great fan of imprint shoes. If I had to go for a plastic shoe, I'd use the Epona shoe, either nailed or glued on.

My experience of Imprints is that they tend to be used in laminitis cases by people who don't fully understand the biomechanics of the situation. Anything that only loads the wall in the front half of the foot is potentially going to increase the risk of rotation and/or sinker in my experience. I've taken quite a few horses out of imprints and seen significant improvements when moving then to carefully shaped pads in boots.

If you need more support than a plain boot provides, an Imprint shoe is unlikely to give it in my opinion (except in very rare circumstances where the sole is badly damaged but the laminae are fairly intact). You'd get a lot more support by using closed cell foam pads in boots but you need someone who can assess where the support is needed and where it is not and shape the pad accordingly. For example, most low grade laminitis cases do well in a plain pad, whereas severe laminitis cases often do better if there is a crescent shaped cut out under the tip of the pedal bone.

[lacey]

Thanks lacey, but I don't want to use anything that penetrates the hoof wall

That's the point of the Epona with casting hooks Sue - they are not nailed on, the casting hooks clip into the nail holes and sit on top of the hoof wall, the casting tape goes over these.

[SueWhitmore]

That's the point of the Epona with casting hooks Sue - they are not nailed on, the casting hooks clip into the nail holes and sit on top of the hoof wall, the casting tape goes over these.

What nail holes? My boy is a barefoot baby, he's only has one pair of fronts on in his entire life, and that was for his grading, 5 years ago.

Richard, my vet said exactly the same thing as you - that he was far better in boots and pads. He said that any of these closed shoe systems end up costing a fortune because they have to be refitted every four weeks otherwise they are not supporting the right part of the foot.

Cloud_cirrus is coming to fit Uranio's boots properly, I'll send her the xrays  when I get back, and she can tell me what to do with the pads. At the moment I have him on three layers of pads, and it has made a huge difference.

Thank you so much for replying, I really value your opinion and feel much more comfortable about his prognosis now.

[lacey]

What nail holes? My boy is a barefoot baby, he's only has one pair of fronts on in his entire life, and that was for his grading, 5 years ago.

  the holes are in the shoes, not the feet, they are made from polymer, can be glued on, cast on or glue and a couple of nails for endurance etc

[SueWhitmore]

    

[drummers mum]

  don't be  Sue, thats how I read it too!

[AG]

Hi

To add another view.  I have seen them used very effectively on a Welsh with rotated pedal bones and the fitting allowed the weight of the limb to pass through the frog/back of foot and relieve very sore pedal bone tips.

With x-rays on hand, the pony was trimmed with a low heel and rolled toe after which the shoe was applied. Hoof balance was assessed and shoe rasped to optimise breakover/balance. Pony much more comfy after shoeing than before.

After 2 weeks the pony was trimmed shoes on. After about four weeks the shoes were renewed.  From memory there were 3 shoeing cycles and then back into boots and pads.

It was very costly and the feet were a bit 'soggy' by the end. Worth discussing though if boots and pads aren't working.

Regards

Annette (edited to amend breed from shetland to welsh)

[rvialls]

On the flip side of that, shetland feet are amazingly strong for the weight of horse. If you can't get a laminitic shetland comfortable fairly easily you're either doing something very wrong or the pony has very dramatic laminitis (e.g. as a result of undetected Cushing's disease, serious poisoning or similar). So a shetland isn't a particularly good advert for how wonderful imprint shoes are in my opinion.

[AG]

Hi

Apologies, I should have typed Welsh (or have gone to bed earlier).

I think it worked well for that pony as the imprint shoe was a little too big and was then rasped smaller so that the weight went down through the frog/heels rather than relying on the hoof wall at the front of the foot. There was air under the front of the foot which gave relief to the sore pedal bones. All of the back of the shoe was supporting the heels/frog. A little hard for me to explain and possibly a happy coincidence that using a slightly over size shoe and making it smaller created support where the foot was most able to benefit.

It did help to stabilise a very poorly newly diagnosed Cushings pony. 

Annette

[rvialls]

the weight went down through the frog/heels rather than relying on the hoof wall at the front of the foot.

This is actually where heartbar shoes (including imprints) fall down. They provide good support via the heels and frog at the back of the foot but only provide support via the wall at the front of the foot. In order for the horses weight to be fully supported, you need support both at the back and the front of the foot. If you imagine standing on a book on the floor with only the heel of your foot on the book and the front half in the air, you'll get what I'm talking about - your foot will fall forwards off the book unless you put a lot of effort into tensing the tendons at the front of your leg. The same is true of a horse.

So when supporting a laminitic, you need to provide support in front of the mid point of the foot as well as behind. Heartbar shoes do this by providing that support only via the wall. The weight put on the wall can only support the horse via the laminae - which are badly damaged in most rotational laminitis cases. So this is a poor match for what the horse needs. The approach needed is to support the weight via the least damaged tissues and avoid weighting the most damaged ones. In small ponies, the sole is rarely anywhere near as badly damaged as the laminae - so the heart bar shoe does exactly the opposite of what you want to do at the front of the foot. I find such cases often do really well with the wall totally deloaded at the front and the weight put on the sole evenly via a therapeutic pad.

For larger horses is can be more complex as the sole tends to get badly damaged under the tip of the pedal bone, at least in the more serious cases. However, in such cases the wall in the quarters (but not at the toe) can take some weight, as can the sole either side of the apex of the frog. These areas may be slightly damaged but represent a far safer place to put weight that the toe wall which is usually far more badly damaged. Again, the heart bar shoe does not fit the bill, whereas a therapeutic pad cut out so that the area at the toe and under the tip of the pedal bone is relieved generally works well.  There are very rare circumstances where weighting the wall at the toe may be appropriate for a short while, but even then the same effect can be achieved better using an appropriately cut pad.

[SueWhitmore]

Just to say, the boots and pads worked. One foot is now boot free, the other is still booted and being treated for an abscess. He is cheerful and eating again. Vet advised against shoes of any type, as did *farrier*   due to expense and the limited benefit in his case, after we had seen the x-rays. Farrier even helped me get the boots fitted with poultice.

[lacey]

Well done!! that's progress