Canter probs:

[annep]

Just thought I'd throw this out for general thoughts! My horse in a nutshell is 6yo, quite heavily built but v. good conformation,very balanced on lunge, good walk and trot, works easily in an outline,had teeth, back done regularly, barefoot and in good hoof balance,has had a bit of a start/stop career so far due to me not having been able to ride but still done a good bit of hacking out, schooling,lunging etc:
But has always had and continues to have difficulty with canter! Sometimes he feels 'ready' to canter-ie good forward trot, in outline and on aids but then runs into a canter which he doesn't always maintain, seems to find it hard to maintain canter round corners and yesterday when going uphill in field whilst he felt 'ready' he ran into canter again and then it felt like he was bunny hopping behind!! -this canter also ran out of steam). The school is on a slight slope and I've always felt that he found cantering on the slope up ahard and thats often where he falls back to trot. Saddle fits fine, was checked recently and also using HM Fhoenix.
He is ridden/lunged 6 days a week, Part of me is concerned but the other part of me just thinks its an age/balance/maturity issue and I shouldn't compare to others.   At the moment my thoughts are: interval training, lunging in canter more often-doing  many trot/canter transitions, cantering when out on hacks.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has had any similar experiences and how it worked out. Thank :)s
 

[cirocco]

Have you read any of my old posts regarding the same subject, about my fell pony Jim, who I bought last years as a 7yr old..
He came unable and totally unwilling to canter, due perhaps to his enormous bulk. He was lbs and lbs overweight. He lost over 9stone from June to Sept.

I had the same bunny hopping problems behind, so dont worry, its a training. Balance. Fitness thing.
Its taken us months and months, but he's through it now, and going really well.

He too was unbalanced and was unable to canter a corner, he ran out of steam same as yours, if asked to do more than half a lap of the school.
I found that lunging was no good for his training, because his last owner had taught him to do flying changes, but also he was disunited behind, so would throw in a change, but be disunited too, so a nightmare, he felt so bad that I did wonder if he would ever come right. Ive ridden hundreds of horses and ponies but had never ever ridden anything as dreadful as him.

I found that canter was only achievable in small bits. So say ten strides than trot, doing this and then upping the canters time to say a half of the school, or just at short ends. cantering a corner then trotting, and getting him to understand that an aid means go..But also asking him to pop into canter 'into his bridle' and in a shape, not to run into it, so little bits are therefore important, its no use asking for too much before they understand that they must canter without throwing out a leg and falling on their nose.

I too tried cantering on a hack, but that was not transferable to the school, he just thought hooooly, so a waste of time.
So I dont canter on a hack at all. I only canter in the school, and only when he is well into his work. so warmed up.
I did [ and still do ] loads of medium trot, rein back to trot, and canter transitions on a 20 mtr circle, but again only ever in bits.
He is not truly established in his canter work, but you cant just ignore everything else to just canter, you have to do a bit of everything, and add the canter at some point.

Just dont worry, it takes time and fitness for them to carry themselves and you.

[RooA]

If he's a big lad he's probably still maturing at 6, and still trying to figure out what his legs should be doing! If he will canter on the lunge I would say do a bit on lunge to help him find his own balance... or loose schooling might be better.  And think about asking for a strike off and a few strides while ridden before bringing back to trot, as cirocco detailed.  As he starts to get it together a bit more I would try and find somewhere nice and flat on a hack and have a bit of a canter on some hacks - just to give him an opportunity to canter for a bit longer without having to turn a corner in the school.

Lots of work on transitions and turns and circles so he is working on his balance in walk and trot can only help. 

[annep]

Thanks very much cirrocco and RooA. Yes! lots of good thoughts/ideas there. I am not sure that the problem is balance as such-just had a lesson tonight ( EE instructor-how lucky am I ) and we've concluded that he's actually curling himself up too much for one thing-this is something he does all by himself so I need to be quicker to quickly correct him and bring him out more through his neck-also think he might benefit from shoes on his front feet! have to accept that if thats whats going to make him more comfortable- have done all the transition stuff since he was backed but remains sensitive in front ( soles apparently thinner near toes)... add to that the Cumbrian climate! Once in canter succesfully as he was tonight-all but briefly-he is very balanced. So I now feel as though I know which direction to go in now but thanks cirrocco for your post-has confirmed what I was already thinking! glad you managed to get through it succesfully-just shows what patience and thinking things through can achieve! Am I right in thinking that you are a friend of Jayne J. in Bolton? Am also a good friend of hers and she used to teach me before I moved up here! we are still in touch. I remember Pronto very well and Domino-what a star!!!!

[ros]

I also have a big lad, and I agree with RooA that at 6 yours is probably still getting his legs in a bit of a tangle now and again. The bunny hopping probably means he's disunited.

I hardly ever canter M in the school except for a little on the lunge as it's quite small, and cantering in a confined space does require more strength which probably as a youngster yours hasn't built up yet. Out in the fields or hacking I get lovely canter transitions these days, from both walk and trot. Personally I found the best trick to get a nice clean transition in the initial stages was to get the horse sparked up, hold back a little, then when he's raring to go let him loose  I use the verbal command as well, and M will go on that alone. You need to prepare him and make sure he has time to set himself up, and if you're too forward in the trot he can't do that and will tend to fall into the canter.

[cirocco]

Annep. What a small world, yes Jane is my trainer. Ive had her for about 7 years now. She was wonderful with me and Rocky, and kept me going when I would have given up schoolong him because he was so difficult.

I took her with me to view Jim the second time, and she rode him when he was a walruss, we couldn't get over how huge he was, but we both saw that under the blubber was a really good pony, so I bought him.
She rode him today in fact, and is going to school him for me while im struggling with a poorly arm..
I have two lessons a week with her, and really like the way she teaches, even though she swears a lot at me because im so stupid.   In fact I cant imagine ever having anyone else now.

Domino is still going, a bit long in the tooth now, but he's really well for a 30odd year old. He spends plenty of time out in the field with the others.
Pronto had a bit of a blip when he was sold, but has now been re homed to a lady that keeps in touch with Jane, so he seems ok too.
Did you ever meet her winni, the horse who died?? She has the most wonderful 3 yr old sired by him, who is really  quite brilliant.
I'll see her at the show this weekend and tell her about you...

Sounds like your having much the same problem as I had, Jim used to 'curl up' too.

My lot have been barefoot for years, and Jane has my EP for her dressage horse. samsam.

Jayne just rang me,  how odd that we have her in common, she said that she spoke to you, im sure she will be able to help sort out your problem, shes great.

[Heather]

Anne, I rarely canter a young horse until he/she offers walk to canter.It prevents them running into it and also prevents them falling onto the forehand. I suspect that my young Luso mare Babou, will be able to do most of the lateral work, rein back, even some piaffe half steps, before I ever attempt canter in the school.

[annep]

OK. Thanks for that Heather-that makes sense :nod:I know it's so easy to be influenced by others  and their horses and start to compare- and in my case start to worry and think I'm doing something wrong! His training hasn't been rushed in any way-partly due to my mishaps -very reassuring to get  positive feedback and advice 

[winnieandben]

Anne, I rarely canter a young horse until he/she offers walk to canter.It prevents them running into it and also prevents them falling onto the forehand. I suspect that my young Luso mare Babou, will be able to do most of the lateral work, rein back, even some piaffe half steps, before I ever attempt canter in the school.

This is a timely thread for me    I am having a few probs getting a good canter transition in the school with my 5 year old after riding her today (after reading this thread) I decided to just keep the cantering for out on hack, round the fields etc over the winter and continue to work on her walk, trot and lateral work in the school and see where we are next year.    ( I have only introduced canter this summer but maybe too soon for her?)  We had a lovely canter up the field at the end of the session. 

[annep]

Am going to just try a little with the walk to canter and see what sort of response I get. School isnt all that helpful really as it's on a bit of a slope and gets quite deep in parts 8o(so will carefully pick my spots-other than that will be having a go out on hacks-possibly try the w/c out on hacks also and maybe this will transfer well to school work. Am feeling quite chilled about it after my lesson with Omar and reading the responses from others on here-also means we can become totally excellent at the walk/trot tests rather than falling flat on our faces ( so to speak) in the BD Prelims 

[annep]

Now cantering   -well we made massive progress tonight in our lesson with Omar!!
Have moved yards and the surface in the new school is totally the best I've ever ridden on and a far cry from the undulating sandpit we were used to and wow! what a difference it made!! not saying we were perfect but Wiz cantered with a confidence and delight I've never felt before-totally wonderful!! and as I've just said to Omar, one riding moment I will never forget!!

[Camacoona]

    See i knew you could do it! 

[crdodgeon]

 

[RooA]

  Excellent.

[cirocco]

 

great feeling eh...