Levelling up a Vogue.

[Alia]

I bought a Vogue MK11 in spring this year. I had previously used an older style Fhoenix dressage saddle with the flat prolite panels and no other padding and my mare Izzy went really well in it. She is a Connemara X WB and has the prominent wither of the warmblood but then her back is flat and wide.
I tried my Instructors newest model Vogue,and loved the less stretched feel through my hips so decided to sell my Fhoenix and buy a Vogue.
I bought mine second hand from Heather and whilst is a lovely saddle it felt to tip me forwards.
I noticed that the difference was the shape of the panels ,the ones in my Vogue are the paddle shaped ones so I contacted Nurseys to buy some flat panels however they advised me that they would not fit the model I have so I bought a wither pad instead.
This corrects the forward tip as far as I am concerned but my horse is not happy. I have had her back checked,everything fine,she hasnt got so much as a ruffled hair on her but has become increasingly irritable, wont stand still to mount and last week she pulled back and broke the string she was tied to when saddling up,and the next day she galloped around the field when she saw the saddle and wouldnt let me catch her.
Out of desperation I tried her in an old treed saddle I have. I long lined her first and watched it bounce on her back,but she didnt seem to mind,
then I got on her, she didnt try to move away, we just did a bit of walking and trotting and she was fine.
I dont want to go back to using the treed saddle permanently, I love the Vogue but need to find a way to make it level and comfortable for her. I think the problem may be the wither pad rather than the saddle itself. Can I just buy shims like the ones sold with the old Fhoenix?
Suggestions welcomed please.

[Claire]

you could try the griffin nuumed shimmable dressage square- usual high wither pattern, and comes with pockets to shim front and back. there are a couple of shims with, and then you can cut your own from e.g. a camping mat (peaches idea that, excellent!)

or you could try a smartpanel

numnah with shims works out cheaper, of course, but nuumed are not cheap, of course.

and i think lou has mentioned a shimmable numnah she's had nuumed make up for her?

[Stormypatch]

Interestingly enough I have had exactly the same issue with the Vogue II on my boy (a 15.2 chunky cob with prominent withers), although the saddle fits beautifully on my OH's shire X and his horse is much happier in it than his treed saddle (it sits much more level on him and doesn't tip me when ridden) so I am sure it is just a matter of levelling up in front comfortably.

Unfortunately my boy has lameness issues following a stifle op, so not in the market for anything at the moment but will definitely keep an eye on this thread as if I can get him sound enough to ride I will need something to level the saddle up in front  .

[Bradders]

  I was just about to post for advice on this exact same subject - have noticed that my Vogue is tipping backwards slightly at the moment. Off to search for shimable numnahs

[Lou79]

Sorry guys - completely missed this!

Alia/Stormypatch - it sounds like your Mark II is one of those that has a bit more of a wedge built in to the saddle core itself at the back which is why you are finding it different in fit compared to your Fhoenix. This design worked very well for some horses, but there are a few that the wedge is just too much for and by the sound of it, if your mare also has prominent withers (are they long as well?) then this wouldn't help either! I would probably suggest (without seeing it - you are welcome to email me some pics if you like) that you tried a shimmable numnah rather than just the wither pad as you probably need more clearance than that can give you, so I prefer the Nuumed ones now as these have a layer of memory foam in as well and sit well under the saddle, although I know other agents still use the Mattes pads. These are the Nuumed ones that I mean http://www.equineequilibrium.co.uk/Nuumed-Products.html. The Smartpanel is an option too, or your other option is to find another saddle which doesn't have the wedge built in, so it would either be a Mark I or the very latest ones. There are a few other things that could help, so as I said, please do email me if you like as otherwise I will be writing a very long essay here that may even not be relevant and confuse you!!

Bradders - which design of Vogue have you got?

[Bradders]

Bradders - which design of Vogue have you got?

Good question I have no idea, I bought it from Heather when I bought Bobby I think it has wool panels if that helps Will take some photos

[newhallfarm]

Just seen this as well.
I've got a smartpanel you can try and/or a mattes shimmable pad if you want to see if that sort of thing will be the solution before you buy anything.  I've not seen the numed pads (but I'm going to have a look), but they do sound good.

[Bradders]

I have emailed you some pics Lou - seemed easier than uploading them on to the internet

[Alia]

Thanks Lou 79,you are spot on with your observations I will look in to your suggestions.I have managed to make a temporary adjustment by making some shims out of an old quilted numnah and fitting them inside the panels but I am a bit worried about them moving or causing pressure points. My Izzy is a bit like the princess and the pea and will let me know very clearly if she is not happy!

Newhallfarm/Ali thankyou for all your help and loans of equipment, I bet you are sick of me and my saddle issues. I will text you.