Lifting the back

[Flyingfox]

How do people here like to train their horses to lift their backs?

If the back is rather long, and the horse is solidly built and slightly croup high, as with my horse Fox, it is clearly a greater task for the horse to lift his back. I can see Foxs back muscles are developing very well on his loin and correctly on his shoulder and neck too, but the area of muscle immediately underneath the saddle is not developing well at all. I use a Vogue mark 2.
 I have just started him with a course of deep muscle massages with a Mary Bromily trained lady named Cara Naylor and I think she really is seriously good. Cara has really helped our mare Whisper a lot already and I think her efforts with Fox will help definitely him, but maybe will take some time and I wondered if anyone had any good ideas of work/exercises to back this therapy up to help him unlock his back? Would any of you try - lunging over trotting Poles? Lunge with a pessoa taken back to sides? Ridden lateral work? In hand lateral work? Rein back/trot/rein back? Or would you recommend some other exercise I havent thought of? Or would you avoid any particular exercise or movement?

[issywizz]

I suppose it comes down to whether there is muscle damage there or not really.
If there is muscle damage you need to first find out what has caused it and sort that out then work on releasing the back and then work on strengthening.
It can be a long process, just depends on whats going on really.
In Bs case it was a combination of a short back, saddle fit issues and ulcers all over a period of years causing him to make compensations in his way of going.
So firstly everything needed addressing ( not easy when it comes to bl**dy saddles  )
Then he needed to learn to let go and reach over his whole topline and only then could I address the muscle development.
In his case I couldnt find a saddle that didnt set the spasm off again so I have worked him in hand and lungeing including pole work and lateral work ( ensuring he remains reaching) since about last September 
Also been riding him bareback on hacks for max 30 minutes on non consecuitve days for the last couple of months.
He is now, finally, at the stage where I have introduced the counted walk and piffle to get the pelvic tilt that lifts the back, always ensuring that he remains reaching over that topline rather than bracing his back.

So yeah, depends on the horse as ever  but IMO you have to have the relaxation and reach first and if he is developing muscle elsewhere but not the back that suggests it is currently blocked.
I personally wouldnt use any gadgets that force an outline but I know others seem to have had success with the Pessoa.

[Flyingfox]

Thanks IW. Short backed long backed, arrrggg - is there actually a length of back which works properly in horses?
For sure he is blocked IW. The deep muscle massage really helped him a lot and I was amazed at his loin - scooping ability when she finished with him in the session - it was far more than I would have imagined possible from him. He felt lovely afterwards too when I rode him again after a day or two off.

[issywizz]

I guess it comes down to the fact that they werent designed to carry us around 
Im finding with B that less is more in terms of very little ridden work and only 1/2 hr a day in hand/lungeing but whether thats to do with his liver issues aswell I dont know,it may be.

But yes, lots of physio and massage is definitely a good thing IMO.