Exercises for creating correct bend

[Jojoba]

As I have been schooling Bob for his dressage test this week (in a snaffle - I finally found one he likes!) I have realised how much we relied on the pelham to cover up faults!

Bob has the characteristic Fell trait of the wobbly shoulders and I have realised he hardly ever rides with correct bend. He turns beautifully, off weight aids alone, but severely loses impulsion as he does so as he can't step through and under whilst turning.

I did a little inhand work with him and his shoulder is very set, he falls in through the shoulder when ridden, rarely out. He is a little tight in his lower back, probably largely due to being so short coupled. His hindquarters are a little upright as well. He has a good shoulder, foreleg and front end generally though.

I have ways of dealing with this when riding to try and correct it, though I think he will lose marks in the test for it. Does anyone have things we can work on to improve this at the root?

Neck and back can both bend, but shoulders fall in. Ideas would be great, thankyou!!
He works in a decent outline but finds extension and lengthening out very hard as he is naturally short and upright. He does flex his topline but doesnt stretch through it (I add this as I know one flexibility begets the other ).


xxx

[ros]

I'm as interested as you in any hints from our friendly gurus (and we have lots of them  ) but in the meantime I'm musing.

I'm wondering if maybe you're focussing on the back end without considering what's happening in front - that is, you're concentrating on getting him to step under when maybe you need to think about lightening the inside shoulder? If he's making a turn, you're effectively shortening the circle on which his inside hind is travelling, which I think actually means you shouldn't be expecting that leg to step under more.

I assume you're asking for bend by lifting your inside hand slightly? Also, in wanting the inside hind to step under are you asking for too much pace, do you think? Might help to slow things down a bit.

Now someone give us the correct answer! 

[shoveltrash]

try first at the walk to 'get it.'

halt
then
bend him in slightly (head/neck)
then
squash him out with your inside leg (mini LY)
whenever you want to correct the 'falling in' of the shoulders
it also helps teach bending

[shoveltrash]

ps - same applies at the trot too.....
only
"think walk" (slow down a step)
then bend in
then, squash out
and REWARD "good boy!!!"
(forgot to mention the most important part, the GOOD BOY/reward! )

[Naiad]

try first at the walk to 'get it.'

halt
then
bend him in slightly (head/neck)
then
squash him out with your inside leg (mini LY)
whenever you want to correct the 'falling in' of the shoulders
it also helps teach bending

I've been working on mini LY on the circle at walk. What leg or weight aids do you use to get your mini leg-yield on a circle? I use my inside leg in rhythm/time with Amigo's inside hind leg - so as his inside hind is coming forward I give a small nudge/taptap with my inside leg. My mind has gone blank - should my inside leg be at the girth (I think so), with the outside leg just a tad behind the girth?? If I needed to use a light tap with the whip to emphasize my leg aid, where would you use it??

[oldmoss]

My cob is also very quick to evade through his shoulders being short coupled as well, however I have found upping the amount of lateral work lately has really really helped.  Loads of shoulder in/fore, travers, leg yield etc has all made him much lighter in front and much much more supple and lo and behold we now have hugely improved impulsion as well  

Just try and ride the test accurately you will be amazed at the amount of marks you can just pick up from riding accurate circles and from marker to marker etc.  

MTA - my instructor also has us on a circle with outside bend for say half the circle and then back straight on the circle again (as my lad has a tendency to overbend his neck)  It really helps you be aware of where the shoulders are etc.

[Heather]

Karen, time we had some photos of your lovely boy, he is another 'Cob that Can'!! One of the nicest cobs I had worked with in years, so talented!!

[Naiad]

It really helps you be aware of where the shoulders are etc.

For a horse that is overbending the neck, but not turning the shoulders (so trying to move straight and not bend his body properly) what aids can one give to help position his shoulders in the correct direction (assuming one manages to stop the overbending of the neck)? Is there anything specific one can do to help the shoulders find the correct direction? If I straighten Amigo's neck and stop it overbending, he still tries to ride straight and not curve his body properly so I assume his shoulders are not curving in an arc but pointing straight forwards, so what can I do to encourage a nice bend in the body while riding the circle (vs. other exercises that might help this).  

[oldmoss]

Naiad - you really want to make your horse as supple as possible, most horses try and avoid / evade because they find it hard work, so the more supple you can make your horse the easier they will find it - well that is what I have found and in the last 3 months my lad has improved ten folds in straightness, suppleness and impulsion.

I have just found doing lots of lateral work in every schooling session has helped - even on a circle, spiralling in, leg yielding out, travers on the circle etc.

I have found that the main reason my lad twists is when he is holding too much tension in his neck, so the flexing to the outside and then straight for a few strides before asking for inside bend helps.

Heather - you are far too kind, but thank you !  I cannot believe the difference in him lately he seems to be really enjoying his work - would love another lesson from you again now LOL !

[shoveltrash]

For a horse that is overbending the neck, but not turning the shoulders (so trying to move straight and not bend his body properly) what aids can one give to help position his shoulders in the correct direction

you should be using your outside rein to control the shoulders.  overbending of the neck might indicate that the inside rein is being used to turn the horse instead of the outside rein.  inside rein should only serve as a 'guide'. 
so technically speaking, inside leg is always at the girth, outside leg slightly back controlling the quarters.  'bend' starts at the nose of the horse, but becomes a bend thru the body with gymnasticizing (as per what oldmoss said ).  horse eventually becomes supple enought to bend around that inside leg.
Naiad your LY timing is perfect .  however what i wrote would indicate a *halt*, THEN a 'tap tap' (right behind the inside leg) LY to move over 1 step w/bend, then a RELEASE as the horse goes forward again.  so that doesn't involve any hindleg at all, 'cause you're at a standstill .  however at the trot it does .

[Naiad]

So I guess that I might just have to put up with substandard circles until Amigo gets more bendy?? It is so frustrating as every time I see improvement in his left turn circles, he goes and gets lame again - and when going back to work we seem to start from scratch again despite me attempting to not give away that outside rein. I just feel like I've been having the same issue for a year now, and literally every time progress happens, I am back to the same problem due to time off from lameness (hock, splint etc.).

[shoveltrash]

but unless you're riding a 10m circle, a lack of bend thru the body shouldn't make it an innacurate figure .  altho your boy IS big! 
sorry, it does sound like a frustrating scenario!

btw, been meaning to say, oldmoss i LOVE your sig strip photos! beautiful horse

[Naiad]

but unless you're riding a 10m circle, a lack of bend thru the body shouldn't make it an innacurate figure .  altho your boy IS big!  
sorry, it does sound like a frustrating scenario!

Well Amigo is not only tall so long in body due to sheer height, he is also long-backed for his height. So there is a lot of him to bend and turn, and in truth our arena only allows for an 18m circle - so not ideal. We are fine on our right circles, but going left, he just wants to overbend that neck. We are both weaker going left, so not only do I have to correct my own issues, I have to correct him too. I am going to really focus on those inside and outside leg aids, and ensure I am not accidentally putting weight in the right seat bone when going left. I know that my right hip/leg is my weaker one that collapses, and my right shoulder used to collapse too. I think I have largely sorted out the outside rein, but I think that I may be messing up my weight aid and my outside leg aid which could be remaining issues among others. Sigh...