Saddle for jim

[cirocco]

I'll put this here, because its a general question really. Its a minefield.

Anyhow, yesterday my trainer said that because Jim is now looking like he 'will' be aimed at dressage, he needs a saddle.
BUT, im struggling to decide what sort to go for. I already have Rocky's two very expensive hand made saddles sitting under my stairs, and the fhoenix in a bag. I phoned Houghtons yesterday who make my saddles and am going over there today to look at some styles, so ive a decision to make. Not just a decision on the style or design, but cost too. Then there is the tree business. Do I really want to go back to a tree'd saddle.  
Im happy riding in the easyfit, although no one else thinks its suitable for anything other than hacking!.
My trainer has come round to my way of thinking about it, that Jim needed to have something at first that fitted him, was non restricting, and would allow him to 'feel' me and learn his new job, which a tree free does.
However now that he is more established and balanced, and going well, she's saying that I cant take him out and do a test, or go to a show in the easyfit, because its looking rather 'tired'. I have to agree, I have used it constantly on different horses for the past ten or so years, so its not in as new condition, the suede is shiny.

The problem I have with the fhoenix dressage, is that it sits me too high up on the pony. I look perched. He is still quite a big chap, and because he has so much about him, looks bigger than he actually is.

What I want and what I can actually get are too different things. I want a slose contact, ie not thickly padded and so high off the pony saddle, that sits me in a correct position.
I looked at things on E Bay last night, non were what I would buy. I have a friend that has an Isabella Worth dressage that she had for her large coloured, so Im  thinking about trying that. But Ive no idea if that sort of thing would be good for us, still a tree'd.

Anyone any ideas.
Im off for lesson now, then to saddlers later, imput welcome.

[Bradders]

Not much help from me - but, for what it is worth, I rode my friend's huge mare in 2 saddles - her GP and her Isabella, and I found that the Isabella felt really wide to me compared to the GP - but I have quite narrow hips and short legs

The saddle that Rolo was happiest in was a little Ideal VSD - we both loved it, but sadly he outgrew it in about 3 months!

Good luck - I do not envy you this one!

[Wendy]

What about a new easyfit? 

[happy-horses]

What about a new easyfit? 

Do they do a dressage one? I found the vogue more close contact then the Fhoenix so might be worth trying 

[catkin]

Is Jim a similar back shape to the smaller Sec Ds?  I have a Parker dressage saddle for the Welsh Princess which we both love - there don't seem to be a lot of them about, my saddle fitter pal found mine second-hand for me. If you can find one then it's probably worth a look - lovely little saddles.
Other makes we considered, and fitted Herself, were Ideal and Farrington.

[cirocco]

I have tried to look at the vogue on here, to see if its lower on the horses back than the fhoenix, but its hard to tell.
ive been to see the saddler today, and he thinks that perhaps id be better off having a dressage saddle made, on a smaller tree, a 16 .1/2'' or 17''. rather than the 17. 1/2'' I usually have.  They dont want to make anything that is too large for the pony. They both thought the fhoenix was perfect in size for him, and the way that it was cut to show the shoulder made it almost perfect for ridden showing. Its a 17. 1/2'' But they were really shocked when they saw where the stirrup bars were. The dressage tree's come with the stirrup bars fitted a good inch inch and a half further forward, im not sure I could cope with that again.

So I will keep the fhoenix for the odd show we do, and then its just a case of a saddle for dressage.

Is there anyone in the Lanc's area that has a vogue that I could try?????

The more I think about it, the more I am seriously thinking I cant go back to a tree'd saddle.

[winnieandben]

if you were to go treed, Ideal are worth a look 

[Larri DB]

Have you tried or considered Wow? Yes treed so to speak, but they have the flair and the laterally flexible "tree" that allows complete freedom of the shoulder.
Also you have the complete flexibility of the changeable headplates / panels and flaps and double stirrup bars so you can put them forward for hacking / jumping and back for dressage / schooling

Have just lent one of mine out to a friend to try on her very wide flat backed HW cob and she said it was a revelation, sat her correctly, and the decent twist meant she didn't feel like she was doing the splits like she normally did! Harry went really nicely in it too.

[flintfootfilly]

I've not seen an easyfit, but aren't they a conventional-looking English saddle, so would be absolutely fine for dressage? 

And you definitely don't have to have brand new sparkly clean tack to do dressage either........ although sadly there are some folk who seem to turn it into a fashion outing rather than a test of progress with their horse's training.  You'll be covering up most of the saddle when you are riding anyway, so no-one's going to notice if it's well worn.  And if they notice, well then hey, at least you're someone who actually RIDES your horse!   

No idea in terms of ridden showing whether many marks go on the saddle itself, but I'd have thought if you are starting with local level shows, then again as long as it's nothing that stands out as being too garish or different, then it should be fine.

If Jim is happy with the saddle, it doesn't appear to be restricting him, and you can stay out of his way in it, then what's to change? 

Rant over, but please don't let anyone tell you that you need a new saddle when you don't.  Sure, if you WANT a new saddle, then that's different.

......  And if you DO want a new saddle, then makes that I've seen fit Dales/Fell types nicely have been (my personal favourite) the Frank Baines working hunter saddle, not least because it has a particularly short panel length compared to their other styles and also compared to other makes, but they aren't cheap.  Also Ideal working hunters or GFS.  It seems to be the working hunter that generally comes in at a shorter panel length than other styles, and also straighter cut so allowing the shoulder to be seen more clearly and to move more easily.  A working hunter wouldn't look out of place in dressage either.  Wouldn't have quite such setback stirrup bars as some saddles, but a good versatile saddle.

I know someone who has a Wow for their little Dales ponies.  I think he's probably about 13.2/13.3 but although she raves about it, she's had to have it adjusted loads of times.  I've also heard from someone who used to fit for Wow that it can be a b****r to fit them to ponies, so personally I wouldn't risk paying so much for a saddle unless you'd been able to try the exact combination of features and knew that it DID suit Jim.

And then of course there's whether you want something adjustable in case his weight/shape fluctuates....

Will be interested to hear what you go for.

Sarah

[cirocco]

This is the one I am using all the time now, and I just love it. I can feel him, and he can feel me, so cutting out the need for huge signals, [ or any signals sometimes  ]. That's one reason why im lothed to go tree'd.

Ive been watching a new newbuck dressage 17" saddle on E bay, its £180. Its just so much like the one im using now that its really quite tempting. Its just brown???? id got it into my head to get black, but brown would be ok suppose.  Im not going international am I. And its going to be ages before anyone takes any notice of us tootling about in the ranks.

The dressage saddle, saddler will make is £1.000!!!!!  



This is the Fhoenix dressage.

Forgive me, I look like a sack of spud's, but id ridden down ready to show him in hand.

He's put some weight back on and doesn't look so thin today. Its a bit of a shock looking at that picture, I hadn't realised how much he had lost. We reckon about 9 stone!... No wonder the poor thing couldn't get himself up off the ground. This picture was taken when Id had him 5 weeks.

 You can easily see the width he was, he didn't fit his legs, they were in the middle of a huge bulk. And his neck was so fat he couldn't bend it. This was when we had just hacked the 1 and a half miles to the school, he was so sweaty anyone would have thought he had been galloped all the way there.

It makes me so cross that people think this is clever or good.    It took me 5 months to slim him down enough so that my legs didn't hurt when I rode him.

[Peaches]

Agree with the idea that only get a new saddle if you feel you want or need one - if you're otherwise both happy as you are, then that's fine and go out and do your thing with what you've got!!

Also regarding having a saddle made - IF you wanted to go down that option, couldn't they get a tree brought in with the stirrups different? I only had a jumping saddle made for L in the end but had I gone for a dressage as well I had discussed that I would want very set back bars: the saddler said his tree's didn't come like that but as he was making a bespoke saddle in every other way, he could order in bespoke tree with the stirrup bars where I wanted them too - no point spending the figures specially made saddles cost for something you aren't entirely happy with and feel may compromise your comfort and ability to ride now is there.... Might be worth asking?

For what it's worth, I think you look good in the fheonix

[Cloud_cirrus]

How about a Saddle Company?  You can have made to measure, butt leather flaps with or without suede or nubuck, memory foam in the seat if you want, set back stirrup bar, shorter flaps if you want, square or round cantle.  10 year guarantee on the tree and adjustable so could accommodate him changing shape.

[flintfootfilly]

..... and I've just been thinking some more....

..... and come back on this thread to say I think Jim and you look fabulous with the Phoenix.  I've read your comment about feeling that it puts you too high up on him, but I don't see that from the photo.  It looks very smart, and if he goes well in it, and if you feel balanced in it, then to me that seems brilliant.

Sarah

[Trudi]

No idea about saddles Penny but good luck in the search and you do look nice in the phoenix 

[Claire]

However now that he is more established and balanced, and going well, she's saying that I cant take him out and do a test, or go to a show in the easyfit, because its looking rather 'tired'. I have to agree, I have used it constantly on different horses for the past ten or so years, so its not in as new condition, the suede is shiny.

but .... no one will actually SEE the saddle when you're sitting in it. 

The problem I have with the fhoenix dressage, is that it sits me too high up on the pony. I look perched. He is still quite a big chap, and because he has so much about him, looks bigger than he actually is.

you look ok in it to me...

IMHO, if you have a saddle (in fact, 2, it seems) that work for you & Jim, why spend money on more?