Some interesting words from Bent Branderup

[Trudi]

Lyndsey for the whole idea of Marijke type of head down and stepping under to work the 'ring of muscles' needs to be working, so just asking the neck down does nothing but the neck being relaxed and allowed to go down as a result of the lateral flexion should create correct lowering (just my take on things and I'm not on the Marijke course).

This Deb Bennet article is something that I find helps with the bigger picture, you may well have seen it before. Do you have Ruby pics or vid?

[Trudi]

sorry a link would help    http://www.equinestudies.org/ring_revisited_2008/ring_of_muscles_2008_pdf.pdf

[Lyndsey Lewis]

I got a little video of both Ruby and Jewel this morning.

I'd really appreciate comments! With Ruby I'm asking a little more than normal because I wanted to really show his way of going. I didn't want him to trot but he starts to fall in on the circle, I start to use my stick to push him out at the same time as keeping his nose tilted into the circle, and instead of moving out on the circle more, he trots. So...then he is trotting a too little circle rushing around me.

Also his head is all over the place!! The bugs are bad but I think a lot of the pinned ears and swishing tail are frustration...???

I'd especially love if anyone sees anything of quality in this way of working him! You see how pot bellied and poor he is over his topline and he's 6 years old and never been ridden. However the lump has gone from his back and he will tolerate a brush and gentle palpation over his back so there has been a huge improvement this year.  But I want him to work and get strong!! So if there are moments in this video where it looks like it's the kind of movement that would be good for him, please let me know! You can just tell me at which second...

I put up a short version (I worked him about 20 minutes) but if anyone wants the link to the longer version  (about 7 minutes), just let me know.

RubyMay2011a.wmv

I also put a little video up of Jewel. I didn't like the trot work with her going left....??...maybe she's just not ready for that yet...??...but the trot right seemed ok..??

JewelMay2011.wmv

I'm always confused about where to post stuff...maybe these should be on the Marijke de Jong thread....???

[Heather]

No its fine here Lyndsey . BB and Marijke whilst more Baroque than Baucher, are still practisiing French equitation

[Heather]

I can verify Lippa's comments, as I have seen her working with her horses. I really like the sound of Bents work in the airs above the ground, Maria. I have only ever seen these airs trained with a pretty hefty use of the whip which I simply don't like, not even with trainers who are quick to praise as soon as the result is achieved. Sabine's horse simply doesnt look in the least bit stressed, and is performing the movements very easily. Just shows it can be done!

[Trudi]

Lyndsey, I'm sure someone better able will be along soon (perhaps put the vid on as a new topic??) but in the meantime I'll say what I see.

It's difficult because I'm not wholly familiar with the Marijke way but for me it started to work for you when you moved the shoulders and quarters (around 1.30 ish I think) and up to that point I was thinking 'move the shoulders a little' and then you did 

I'm not sure of the benefits of this work just keeping going on a circle but I can see the benefits long term of it as a part of your work. In fact at times he looked a little peeved but I know you edited down from a much longer session and so you may have worked other things into the session. For me I'd play a little with more of a shoulder-in angle so that the inside hind is 'connecting' more on a line with the outside fore and then take this into the stretching out and stepping under of the Marijke work. I think I'd also use some reinback (with a lowered head) between this and some giravolta (all of which you may well be doing  )

I think it's great that you have already seen changes, that in itself is part of your answer I think! I'm sure Ruby is headed in the right direction with you guiding him.

I've run out of time to look at Jewel's vid, I'll have a look tomorrow.

[Lyndsey Lewis]

Lyndsey, I'm sure someone better able will be along soon (perhaps put the vid on as a new topic??) but in the meantime I'll say what I see.

Thanks for the suggestion...I maybe will do that...I'm still getting a bit lost in this forum... ...and sometimes I forget which thread I was having a conversation on...

It's difficult because I'm not wholly familiar with the Marijke way but for me it started to work for you when you moved the shoulders and quarters (around 1.30 ish I think) and up to that point I was thinking 'move the shoulders a little' and then you did 

So when I got him to move a bit more laterally...??

I'm not sure of the benefits of this work just keeping going on a circle but I can see the benefits long term of it as a part of your work. In fact at times he looked a little peeved but I know you edited down from a much longer session and so you may have worked other things into the session. For me I'd play a little with more of a shoulder-in angle so that the inside hind is 'connecting' more on a line with the outside fore and then take this into the stretching out and stepping under of the Marijke work. I think I'd also use some reinback (with a lowered head) between this and some giravolta (all of which you may well be doing  )

I'm not sure either... ...I just feel like this is the least harmful way to mess him up...

He looks peeved pretty much 100% of the time I work him!!! The only time he is not peeved is when we are playing some game where he is at liberty and it involves games like standing in his bucket or getting groomed on his belly. In other words, if he has to work, even at the walk, he's peeved!!! He has been since he was 1 year old. For me it's been his major symptom! The silly thing is that he shows up for work! So if I just stand in the ring he will come running and follow me everywhere. But if I want to attach a line to him and control his movement, back go the ears!! Charming boy!!

Anyway, the stuff I edited out was feeding treats after a release and standing around rubbing his belly - sort of changing the subject and resting - even more boring than the work (if you can imagine!!  ) I didn't do rein back or giravolta in this session but I do a little of that sometimes.

Thanks for the thoughts about the shoulder-in...I think you may mean more straight line work down the wall so I can keep the SI angle...?? He is starting to do that quite well and I should maybe be mixing it in more regularly. This is where it would be nice to get to a MdJ clinic so I could get an idea of what this horse needs at this point...

Thanks Trudi!

[Trudi]

That's interesting Lyndsey because my boy seems happier attached than at liberty, I do so wish I could get inside their heads even just for a few minutes! Is he peeved when you are ahead of him as in the video or is he the same when you're at his shoulder? We have been discussing on Bambu's blog about this peeved look when you're ahead of them, might be worth having a read.

He does over bend (laterally) the neck (I'm guilty of that one too) and perhaps you could try slowing him with your body placement rather than the hand. It's actually very helpful to see others working on similar lines so thanks for posting the vids, I WILL get to watch Jewel later!

Yes the S-I could be on the track but equally on the circle, moving from slight bend to a shoulder-fore to a S-I and back through the angles again. I'm finding with my boy (who is a bit weak behind still) that this posing of different questions is making him more body aware  that and the lowered head reinbacks.