Fewer and fewer clinicians sharing their work online...

[christuris]

Horses for Life's latest blog -- http://blog.horsesforlife.com/ -- The Freedom to Err

This hit home really hard, reading this.  I guess we've brought it on ourselves ("we" meaning all the discussion groups on the internet). But I can see both sides of the argument, and I'd probably be inclined to have people rely on the clinicians' published works and see the progression there, under controlled circumstances, rather than occasional postings of photos and videos of maybe not so serious students.  Things can too easily get taken out of context and people's work can get trashed without adequate knowledge of the method...  But on the other hand, the internet is such a powerful tool for people to learn, so I hate to see it suppressed.

Anyway, see what you think -- this could be a lively discussion!  (Moderators, this isn't aimed at French, so feel free to move it to Classical Training or elsewhere if you think fit.)

Christina
Indian Hills, Colorado
www.AlphabetRanch.com

[wimble]

I understand them ... but I've learnt so much from all that I've so far found on the internet and I hope that knowledge will keep spreading despite of this.

Also I'm a very visual learner and not being allowed to film my ride at a clinic would limit my learning possibilities... and would probably make me not go .

[christuris]

Also I'm a very visual learner and not being allowed to film my ride at a clinic would limit my learning possibilities... and would probably make me not go 

I agree.  I have most of my lessons with Manuel on video from several years ago, and also a couple of clinics, and he won't allow videotaping any more, at clinics or private lessons, but photographs are still okay, so I'm taking hundreds at every opportunity!  That is one HUGE reason I haven't gone back to him for private lessons because I can't remember diddly afterwards!!!  Another reason is that the sound system sucks and he insists on overlaying music while he's teaching, which I find hinders my comprehension even more.  Not to mention that Comet is scared out of his pants at the loudspeakers!  I can't get anything done!  (Saddlebred, you know...!)

Christina
Indian Hills, Colorado
www.AlphabetRanch.com

[wimble]

Not to mention that Comet is scared out of his pants at the loudspeakers!  I can't get anything done!  (Saddlebred, you know...!)

Unfortunatly I don't, but it sounds like I might like them

Talk about complicating things, extra music during teaching? turned down low classical...? sounds like it's very disturbing though.

Having videos from a few years is great! I have one old that I refuse to watch and a few younger ones that I can stand if I have a pillow . It's not really that bad... but the possibility of riding a lesson eg on a saturday, watching the movies in the evening and then finishing on sunday with one more lesson to put visuals and tactiles together is great.

The hard thing would be to try to figure out a way where filming was allowed but where limited results would not reflect to badly on the clinican. Eg, in Sweden people are pretty averse to the italian clip where PK is teaching and the horse is overflexed, had mom translate it apparently PK more or less says (among other things) Terrible rider, fantastic horse. But this very short clip does make people negative when it comes to PK and his "system".

[christuris]

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Not to mention that Comet is scared out of his pants at the loudspeakers!  I can't get anything done!  (Saddlebred, you know...!)
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Unfortunatly I don't, but it sounds like I might like them 
 

Think giant ditzy Arabian but without the often seen dished head.....  They don't have Arabian blood in them that I'm aware of, and I think it's the breeding for the show ring that's made them ditzy -- they were originally bred to be plantation horses in Kentucky, where the owners would spend all day on them touring their crops, so they had to be very sensible.  Usually five gaited, which makes them very smooth.  Comet is fine on the trails, although he can be a bit of a "lookie-loo".

The music at Manuel's clinics and lessons is usually Spanish style, although occasionally he puts New Age type music in there -- it's always appropriate for the occasion and carefully chosen, and at the end of one clinic recently he used it to get the participants to use the rhythm to ride to.  It worked wonders!  (Nuno Oliveira used to ride to opera.)  But the speakers already make Manuel's voice somewhat muffled and the music added to it is distracting for me.  But he says that it relaxes both horses and riders (but not my Comet!!!)

My old videos make me cringe, but I suspect I would still cringe if I saw video of us today...!  But I do think that I've pretty much mastered my chair seat...I think!  I'd need visual proof.  Also, seeing the difference in Comet would be most instructive.  But at least I wouldn't have to go to a clinic to see that.

Christina
Indian Hills, Colorado
www.AlphabetRanch.com

[wimble]

Sounds like great horses I like the type that's awake and up so to speak otherwise I tend to loose focus

Must be the wrong music for Comet then, one winter the old gelding refused anything but Josh Groban's Ave Maria he'd be kicking the door until we complied. We doormats? noooo  . Must be the wrong speakers to .

Someone said something about it taking up to 3 month of continuos filming and watching for proper benefit. One month to cringe, one month to get used to it and one month to get a balanced view of good and bad... or something like that anyway...  

[Cloud_cirrus]

I think it is a shame however I can understand why people are concerned.  I think there is a world of difference between a trainer showing their work and having the opportunity to put it in to context, eg, 'this wasn't great but I did this and it was better' and a third party taking footage and putting it up for the world at large for discussion.

The person I train with does still allow video of a persons lesson, as long as it is only done by someone connected with the pupil. I think he does find this useful sometimes as he may well speak to camera while demonstrating something so the person has a record of what was said.  If this video appeared in the public domain however without his approval I think he would have something to say.

I do hope people will still share their work, I think it will mean that some trainers need to be a bit more involved in their online presence however and that won't suit all of them.

[Claire]

i noticed on max's site he now says video for yourself by all means, but don't put it on the internet

one can see why, really, as others have said ....

if someone tried to play music during a lesson with me, i wouldn't be able to hear a word that was said!  struggle enough as it is....

[issywizz]

Hmm, well quite honestly I think if you are teaching others then you shouldnt be hiding what you do.
If they have nothing to be ashamed of then they should allow their work to be shown and discussed.
If they are working on something at the time and are worried how it looks then all they have to do is explain loud enough for the video as they do so.

Perhaps the poor sensitive souls should consider how the horses feel when they 'make mistakes' and get whipped etc for doing so. 

[winnieandben]

IW is back! 

[lisaNW]

I think the article puts it very well. It affects decent trainers as much as those who think nothing of giving a horse a beating. Afterall, its their life and therefore their choice.

[wimble]

and different preferences (fashions?) makes for some of the clashes.

But could it be solved somehow? the loss of possible learning is quite distressing .

An explanatory disclaimer on trainers websites? that students might quote on their youtubes? with things like 'every session is a work in progress' type thing...?

[issywizz]

Easily solved- just refuse to train with anybody who feels they have something to hide 

[ChrissieW]

You've only come back cause Heather's away and Sue's already planning Nortyness 

Glad to see you back....

Its a difficult one for the professionals isn't it. No-one wants to be ripped apart on material out of their control and when it effects their living, that's harsh. However one would hope that their work could stand up to criticism and anyone in the horse world needs a bit of a tough shell.

I think it would put me off not being able to video a lesson at all but I wouldn't mind being asked that it was kept for personal consumption only.

[wimble]

Well, it's not just hiding stuff. It might be to avoid missunderstandings, the stuff I've seen with done-at-home-neckraising on YT ...

I guess I could agree to keeping movies to myself... but I got family spread out in different dvd zones and YT is the easiest way to share...

Can't afford a clinic now anyway so I guess it won't affect me much (give me some more time for *important* stuff perhaps )