Rope handling, tai chi, and the tipping point - Isabella style

[Trudi]

What I do know, is that Ben and Lottie both break into the arena ( they undo the catch if I dont rope it shut). Callisto and Isabella havent learnt that yet.( but would if they could).

  that's great and I'm sure if mine were able to they would just to get all the toys out and chew them 

[Appy2quarter]

Really interesting discussion - HSS is an exercise that can have many variations as far as I can see.  For example, when I was working with Alex's horse, it became a shift into shoulder in with the inside hind engaged, a halt and then a rockback into forward again.  Certainly at no point with him did he have his head up or was braced.  However, this is a horse waaaay down the line in Alex's work.

I have also seen a couple of other long time students do this more refined version and its so far removed from the early exercise which is an exercise in control.  Its strange how it goes from a DISengagement at one end of the spectrum through to an ENgagement at the other.

I do think it can be aversive if pushed early on; my horse had a lot of NH in his background, and asking for a disengagement and backup was definitely not a good experience for him.  However, by breaking it down and down and down and also using food to obtain the backup, he started to step back properly and in a much better shape.  It is now something he enjoys - in fact when we do any version of HSS, he 'drops' and will whicker!!  It has changed him no end in the way that Trudi mentions; the gymnastic 'bounce'.

As Alex says, find a picture you like and that picture varies from person to person and clinician to clinician.  I am sure my version of c/t is different to others as I attempt to combine Alex's work, PK and others.   

Like Hilary, I find my boy loves to work in the school if we're doing inhand work - HSS, more classical stuff and others.  However ridden is slightly different so I'm still attempting to use the power of the groundwork to affect the ridden.  As to what is aversive, you can disappear up your own whatsit if you aren't careful!

I don't believe its possible to fully train and ride a horse using -R; the challenge is perhaps more of using the power of the +R created attitude to carry it through to ridden.  For other horses though, gently building step by minute step means that although the exercise is -R, the reinforcement history means it is perceived in a +R way...if that makes sense?

One of the problems with the DVDs is that there's very little of the finished product - Hilary and I went to watch Alex in the US partly to address this.  I wanted to know where I was headed!!  It is difficult to show just how small the steps are when correctly worked through and I know that we want to see beginners but without the end point, it can seem that this is how it should look. 

This is really rambling, sorry!

[Lyndsey Lewis]

I don't believe its possible to fully train and ride a horse using -R; the challenge is perhaps more of using the power of the +R created attitude to carry it through to ridden.  For other horses though, gently building step by minute step means that although the exercise is -R, the reinforcement history means it is perceived in a +R way...if that makes sense?

One of the problems with the DVDs is that there's very little of the finished product - Hilary and I went to watch Alex in the US partly to address this.  I wanted to know where I was headed!!  It is difficult to show just how small the steps are when correctly worked through and I know that we want to see beginners but without the end point, it can seem that this is how it should look. 

This is really rambling, sorry!

Great post! Please keep 'rambling'!! 

Well worded about using the power of +R to carry through to helping the horse to perceive -R in a positive way. I am always trying to pin down my thoughts on this and what you've said is really helpful. I think that Alex using more and more -R in her work is maybe tied to this where there is such a strong history of +R, the -R is still a positive experience! That's how I want it to be with my horses!!

Yes I've seen some really nice end points. I guess I've just seen some rough beginnings but also I'm just not that wild about using that series of steps to get to that end point. But then that's also just a case of many roads to rome...??