spooking

[carapony]

I was just wondering how you all deal with spooking out hacking. My little mare has become quite unsure of herself since we moved yards two months ago. To be fair to her we have gone from doing no roadwork and rarely meeting anyone other than the odd dogwalker to a having to hack through a small village to get to the downs. We also now have to brave such monsters as donkeys, pigs and llamas!  I know that she is going to take quite a while to feel really secure in her new environment but wondered what is the best method of dealing with her spookiness in the meantime? She isn't being naughty, she is genuinely worried but I don;t want to make it worse for her by handling it wrong. at the moment my tactic has been to get off and walk her past whatever is terrifying her and carry on with my ride.However this can take quite a long time. Today I spent an hour coaxing her past some pigs one step at a time and I only got off when we were right by them to help her with the last really scary bit. Having been such a brave soldier today should I take her back to face the pigs again tomorrow or would you suggest doing a really low stress ride instead? I'm not sure whether it is desensitising her to keep going back to the scary things or just stressing her out more? What do you think?

[catkin]

I've ended up doing the same thing - getting off to go past something very scary but that's because I know mine is used to being lead past spooky stuff and it helps her (she did miles in-hand as a baby with me round the lanes and village). I also found that a form of clicker training really helped with traffic - car comes near, we step to side of road, wait quietly and we get a haynut or two (though they can be a bit inclined to start looking for traffic as 'cars mean prizes'! - I drew the line at rewards for parked cars when she tried that, the little monkey )

I go out when I'm not in any hurry so that if we do come across anything then we can both take our time. If she needs to have a good look and a good sniff then so be it!

I try to go different routes every day, and would try to approach the pigs etc. from different directions.

[Della]

Hi Carapony

Catkin is right, getting off and helping your mare is the way to go. However, that does presuppose that you have the relationship on the ground established first.

Just be careful with the timing of your 'reassurance'. Praise/click/reward for the tiniest attempt to advance towards the terrifying object, but don't get carried away with the praise/click/reward because there is then a chance that you will inavertently (sp?) do it when she is thinking 'backwards', being nervy, etc.

Most of all, take your time and don't make too big a thing of it, either for your mare, or for yourself.

Good luck!

[carapony]

Thank you both for your advice.
Cara and I have quite a well established relationship on the ground - we have followed Richard Maxwell's roping techniques for some years now and done lots of in-hand hacking when she couldn't be ridden due to injury. I am a bit of security blanket on the ground if there is something scary. I will carry on getting off and leading her when she absolutely can't face the monsters and try not to reward any negative behaviour. The other livery at the new yard is very traditional - from the 'never get off your horse' school of thought, so it's nice to have some reassurance that I'm approaching this in the right way. You can start to doubt yourself sometimes ...

[catkin]

Hi again, Carapony,

Funnily enough, since posting the earlier reply I've been having a discussion with a neighbour on this very thing!  - and if anyone gives you a hard time about getting off at first etc this could be a useful way to think about it:

In riding past a scary object you are actually asking three questions of the horse not one; to go past, to go past on a rider's aids, to go past ignoring it and paying attention to the rider. So if you chunk that down into three questions you find you are not 'giving in' or anything so daft. The primary goal is to get past the object, the refinements can come later.

Can you go past?  - I'm here and I won't let it eat you
Can you go past with me on top? - It didn't eat us last time so shall we have a go like this, even if you scuttle past.
Shall we just go past? - It's boring really............

[carapony]

 thats an excellent way of looking at it Catkin and makes perfect sense to me
I will put it to my very opinionated co-livery next time she tells me that my horse has 'won' every time I get off!

[DollysMum]

Do you have anyone to hack out with? Nelly was very spooky when she arrived but I've been taking her out lots with brave horses that used to live next to the M5 and now she's super - she still has the odd sideways leap but the looks embarrassed and goes forward again.

[Emma]

You already have lots of good advice here and are obviously hugely sympathetic to your mare.  Just a little food for thought on top of what has already been said: 

just be careful you are not taking her too far out of her comfort zone.  We can all cope with out comfort zones being stretched but trauma / phobia often arises when we are taken so far out of that zone in one go or on a repetitive basis that we cannot cope any more and so become phobic / traumatised to those triggers.  And they are not always that easy to decipher.

I personally would take her out walking in hand in her new environment, learn what worries her and spend some time doing some approach and retreat work with a good shoulder rub for reward making sure that you move the boundaries each time.  You can always add in clicker later on but it's not necessary to guage responses and build confidence.

I always use the analogy with my clients:

" If you were really scared of a spider and I pushed you ahead of me towards it would that make you trust me more or less ?  So now if I lead you a little toward it and then walked away telling you how well you had done, let you have a think and then said OK let's get a little closer this time and I led you again so you maybe felt a little nervous but you could cope, then surely you are more likely to trust me a little more each time so when I did ask you to go a little closer on your own telling you I know you will be OK then you are more likely to trust me to do that I would think"

From a healing point of view EFT is wonderful for helping horses overcome these fears.  I worked with a horse today who wouldn't go over scary things / markings / etc. on the ground and was thratening to rear and run  but a little EFT helped him to be brave and walk over them!

Best of luck and keep us posted

Emma x

[janehon]

Sounds like you are coping well so far. Don't listen to anyone who say's getting off is letting her win.

I have to employ the spider situation with my mare if she's really scared about something. She is a complete wuss though, I also get so stiff and sore I struggle to get off and on so this method allows me to increase her confidence staying on board.

Clicker training has helped me get her to a point where she will approach scary things, but only some things, and only when she's in the right frame of mind

[flintfootfilly]

I'm happy taking my time, and hopping off if it gives the pony and me more confidence, which it usually does!

I'm after my pony building confidence going past something scary, rather than just making them go past, although there will be some times when they do just have to do it there and then (like if there's traffic coming, and it becomes non-negotiable).

I place myself between the pony and the scary object, so that if they spook they spook away from me rather than landing on me!  They also think I'm mega-brave for walking sooooo close to the monster, and soon seem to work out it's ok, without me having to do much persuading generally.

If I spot a good monster on a quiet lane or bridleway, then so much the better because I don't have to factor traffic into the equation and we can take more time/space if need be.

If we can meet the monster on the way home, rather than on the way out, so much the better in the early days.  Home can be a good strong draw to help them be brave enough to walk past the monster.

Sarah

[cirocco]

there is nothing wrong with getting off to give a horse confidence, its what sensible people do.
Your not sitting on top scared and passing your feelings on. You are doing the right thing, you know your horse better than anyone.
You have many years to ride past scary stuff, when your both ready.

[carapony]

thank you all so much for taking the time to reply - you have given me some great advice and some reassurance that I'm tackling this right
just to update you on our progress - I took little pony out yesterday, this time on a route which encounters the donkey monsters. I did have to get off and coax her past them ( there are 90 donkeys in a field which borders the bridlepath ) and despite her being on 'red alert' the whole way she listened to me and walked by. Once we crossed the road on the other side of the donkey sanctuary and reached the safety of the old railwayline her head lowered, the jaw softened and I got back on. We then carried on and had a lovely 2 hour hack - what a brave girl Let her have the day off today and will go out again tomorrow

[Hammie]

Just to add, if there's a certain thing they always have trouble with, it really helps to get them going backwards and forwards past it, until they're bored silly! There's an overhead pipe on our yard that Snowstorm always hated, then a friend rode him along that track and instead of doing what I do when she'd got past it - mentally cheering and carrying on along the track - she turned him round to face it and rode him back under it again - and again, and again...and a bit of trot under it... and halting near it. Eventually he relaxed and wasn't bothered by it. Since then he's never looked at it twice.

[Magsndan]

Sounds good to me, I get off if needed. I hate the must get them by approach. Thats how you end up with rearing spinning and bogging off

[nona]

Emma

Can you say a bit more about how you do EFT with the horse.  As you know I am a big fan.

Cheers

Nona