Teaching the canter

[Flyingfox]

I have just tried to help Flo to learn how to do an EE canter - without success. She currently scoops her tail under and polishes the saddle, with a driving seat which pushes Whisper onto her forehand for sure.  Her shoulders row considerably back and forth and her lower leg windscreen wipes. I have  tried to show her from the ground the movement to try to use, - the vertical anticlockwise oval hip movement and she knows that she is scooping/driving with her seat, understands the backwards vertical oval movement, but she just cannot do it on the horse at all. And the more she tries, the worse it gets. We had to stop.
Any suggestions what to say to her to help her get it - or do you think is it only possible for her to get this knack sorted out on the simulator?

[crdodgeon]

It may be that the sim's what's needed, as it may be that that's the best place to get the picture in your mind matching up to what your body's actually doing.  But I've found it very helpful - when alone, and NOBODY can see me - to put on a particular CD. Maid of Orleans by OMD to practice the movement on the ground - including cantering around the flat . And then it seems to help me really feel  the rhythm of the canter and picture that backwards vertical oval movement.

I'm not suggesting using that track per se... needless to say... but it's quite a strong 123 123 123 and so it may be something similar helps to fix the mental image/muscle movement connection.

[Flyingfox]

Hmm! Not sure if I could persuade Flo - as a nearly 17 year old - to listen to OMD!!! I suppose any waltz would do though!

Its not the rhythm she is having a problem with though, - its the urge to drive with her seat on each stride which is proving very hard for her to stop.

Cantering around the school without a horse might do it though. Will report back on this one - if I can get her to do it! One problem is getting past the 'what does mum know about anything anyway' teenager reaction!

[crdodgeon]

One problem is getting past the 'what does mum know about anything anyway' teenager reaction!

Yes, there is that.
 I suppose I find that the musical link helps me think 'up' rather than 'drive' (I used to have an instructor who taught 'butter on the bread') and so to somehow think that yes, my bum was on the saddle, but that, a bit like doing a waltz, you're lifted - obviously not on your toes! - and 'with' not pushing. (sorry that really doesn't help much!!) See if cantering round without a horse helps, if you can persuade her!!

[Trudi]

One problem is getting past the 'what does mum know about anything anyway' teenager reaction!

  my 10 yo has the same reaction when I try to iron out the 'differences' between what she learns at the club to what actually works best 
Regarding the canter I don't know about Flo but what often worked for me was to ask folks to do nothing, obviously you do need a horse that once in canter will stay in canter either on the lunge or just large in the school. Just to sit there and tell me what the canter was doing to them, how it was moving their body but doing nothing to actually 'ride' it just being moved by the horse, bit like the jelly on a plate with sitting trot that helped my daughter when she was over trying in the sitting trot, don't fight it let it move you. Everyone is different, some people like mind pictures and perhaps some others may have some good ones to try and others need to know the techie stuff like how the canter actually works, ie running through the sequence of legs etc.
Good luck.

[whisper's mum]

I agree with Trudi, try telling her to do nothing.  LauraD noticed I can do the canter on the simulator without a problem but as soon as I get on a horse and try to do it, I start driving so said I need to think of doing nothing and allowing my pelvis to move ... then I do the elipse naturally. If you do nothing on the simulator, nothing happens because it is rider powered but the horse isn't and will take the rider if they allow the movement to happen. Keep the elipse in mind but don't force it.   

[Heather]

Bring her down on the sims, Jacquie- easy way out I know, but you are not too far to come, and it is good practise for you as an EETT!- if your own daughter will let you work on her too!!

[Flyingfox]

Bring her down on the sims, Jacquie- easy way out I know, but you are not too far to come, and it is good practise for you as an EETT!- if your own daughter will let you work on her too!!

Thankyou so much Heather! Florence is very grateful  :hug:We will iron out a date asap xx

[SueWhitmore]

Jacqui, does she do it with every horse she rides?

[Flyingfox]

Jacqui, does she do it with every horse she rides?

Im not sure TBH. Its so very hard to prise her off Whisper that I havent seen her canter anything else for ages!  
Whisper sure doesn't need a driving seat though - she is perfectly rapid enough, (needs better brakes and less accelerator really  ) but I think this rowing shoulders and shoving bottom thing has stemmed from Flo having to drive Whisper with her seat into jumps when she was in her 'reluctant to jump anything bigger than 2ft 6 phase' when we first bought her. She still needs pushing at some of the bigger jumps now, so its hard for Flo I suppose to switch the driving seat on and off.

[orangezebra]

Can you get her to think UP on beat 1, like we did with the canter simulator, forget her legs and shoulders and everything else and just focus on the up on beat 1 with her seat and a string coming out of the top of her head tugging her upwards?! 

[intouch]

I've sometimes found that teaching 2 point to begin with, then "rising" canter can help get the right balance, so finding the rhythm to sit to the canter comes more easily.

[hilary]

Not sure if this would help .  but I got another pair of Heather's widetread stirrups this week ( had some a time ago, one got run over (!) and had smaller ones -  interesting- I found my seat changed ( for the better., partic canter -  somehow lighter and stiller) . iT is nothing to do with telling, but if it gives her a different feel it may then be easier to change what she does ( if you know what I mean)
I didnt realise the difference they made til I went back to using them

[lisaNW]

Is she naturally hollow backed or does she have more of a C shape to her back (or neither)? I've found this makes quite a difference! C shape I've found it helps to get them doing just thinking of doing a hollow followed by straight hollow-straight etc. movement before putting the up in. With a hollower back thinking of "do nothing" (be quite soft without collapsing in a heap) and then putting the "up" into it (and thinking of the up coming from scooping up the belly with the lower leg (not contracting them upwards though!!) helps. I could never get it from the backwards circle however much I understood the concept, and the do nothing plus "up" works best for me (hollow backed).

HTH
Lisa