Leg position...

[Cheryl]

I am really keen to develop my overall position and have spent time working on my core stability to do this.  I have slight lordosis and so concentrate on ‘dipping the headlights’ and drawing my core back so that my belly button doesn’t stick forward but is directly above my pubic bone to so as to neutralise my pelvis (if I don’t I end up looking like a duck with my bum sticking back and my back arched!). However, I am now aware that I have lower leg movement in trot and in canter I can sometimes lose a stirrup.  I think this is partially because I can draw up with my thighs. I am not in an extreme ‘chair’ seat but my heels are in front of the correct shoulder, hip, heel alignment.  I had a lesson the other days and the instructor repositioned my thigh so that it was more lengthened along the front.  This in turn brought my lower leg and heel back into better alignment.  I was sitting in the classic shoulder, hip, heel alignment- yay!. Even though my stirrups were flat in my mind it felt like my feet were pushing back on them like one’s feet might do on a motorbike.  The instructor said that this might be a useful mental image for me to help me maintain this position.  I could keep the position in walk ok but as soon as we went into trot I felt unbalanced and my upper body felt tipped forward, my back arched again and I felt unbalanced (I guess because the position of my legs were back from were they normally were). When I took my legs back to the ‘old’ position I was better able to keep with the movement of the horse and didn’t arch my back.  The instructor said that I should just practice the ‘correct’ position in walk at the moment as it is too much for me at the moment to maintain core stability (i.e. no arching) and correct leg position at the same time in trot.  She said in trot to keep concentrating on the core rather than the legs at the moment. I want to start correcting my leg position though.

Can anyone suggest any useful images that have helped them maintain their leg position?  I remember on another post someone mentioned that they think of ‘kneeling’ with the thigh to keep it lengthened at the front.  How can I make the shift from my ‘normal’ muscle position and maintain the length at the front of my thigh and allow it to drop??? I feel this is the key to keeping centred and also keeping my stirrups!!!  Has anyone else overcome this problem? How long did it take to fix it? Or is it something that you have to keep working at?  Another friend said that her lower legs used to move lots but with lots of riding in a year her lower legs feel still without her trying.  I am fit and active (ride 3 times a week and spin 3 times a week) and feel that this shouldn’t be beyond me!  But somehow my mental determination is not translating into my riding!  Arghh!!!

[crdodgeon]

You may well have said on other posts, so sorry if I'm repeating something, but what's your saddle like?

It may (in part) be the old chestnut of being in a saddle with the stirrup bars too far forward - you can compensate for it in walk, but when you're getting to trot then it's harder to keep the position partly because of where the stirrups hang.

Are you able to get some footage of yourself? That might help peeps to pinpoint those little things that you might be doing?

You certainly sound like you're really body aware, and aware of what you want to be feeling, so that's certainly a help in working out what's not working quite so well

[Cheryl]

Hi Crdodgeon,

Thank-you for your reply I think it is partly the saddle as I found it must easier to sit well when I rode in a HM saddle at Meadowbrook.  However, because I don't have my own horse and share I am not able to buy a saddle.  So I guess that it is the riders job on most occasions to compensate. The question is how do I begin to compensate in trot and canter and fight the tendency for my lower leg to drift forward and my thigh to raise?  The saddle I ride in is a dressage saddle but I think the stirrup bars are still set forward of the HM saddle 9is this true of most dressage saddles?) and also my instructor said the saddle is too big for me (i always thought the saddle was only fitted to the horse but apparently it needs to fit the rider too - sorry if this is an ignorant thought! he currenty wears a 17 1/2 inch but could wear a 17 inch-which might make a difference?)

Cheryl x

I have posted some footage of me before on the horse that I am currently riding (altho in the video I am behind the movement too-I get a bit embarassed watching it back now!  I am also rising too much from the saddle but because he is a big mover I feel 'thrust' out of the saddle sometimes but I am working on it) But here is the video link:

Cheryl and Barnum Dressage

 

[crdodgeon]

I can sympathise with the saddle situation, as I don't have my own horse either and so I'm very much at the mercy of other peoples' saddles. I have found that using a seatbone saver has helped with that; I can get 'in' to the saddle more, and it's consistent where the saddles aren't.

The big movement and 'thrust' issue is also something I understand as Maj was a very big moving warmblood and you could have made a cup of tea while you were up there 

Some of the others will be able to give you much better advice - I'm more someone in the same boat, frankly. The footage of me from before Christmas was frankly awful - I had the whole duck thing going on! 

With me, I find that several things all tie in together and interrelate. In no particular order, there's the whole thing of having my little toe below my big toe, which helps with length from hip flexors down and roundness - that sense of drape around the horse's side, without being stiff. In fact that's the major thing. If I can get that, then I've got a better chance of being able to use my core better, and thus my lower back right and not hollowing it. When I don't get the drape, then thighs tighten and I'm more likely to have my legs swinging forward.

But there'll be others who've got far more useful advice to give!

[Heather]

Cheryl,

Do you know if your current instructor is influenced by, or trained in, Ride With Your Mind?

[Cheryl]

Thanks crododgeon, I will remember the little toe idea.

Heather, my regular instructor as far as I know isn't rwym. However, the instructor who changed and advised me about my leg position - as described above- is or was a rwym coach. Why?

Cheryl x 

[Cheryl]

I guess what I'm wondering is how other riders compensate for their saddles and achieve a classical position over time if their tendency is to hollow their back and raise their thighs? I am a bit of a perfections at heart and want to ride classical and in balance...what would u guys work on first in my case? Core, legs? I read somewhere that u have to get the seat right first. Is u do the position first it can lead to stiffness. If so, I guess the answer is lunge lessons...but how many does it take to stick in your muscle memory?

[crdodgeon]

Just a quick one - and again, there are others out there who are far better qualified to help on this than me, as I'm very much re-learning.

Suddenly struck me - is your issue more in sitting or in rising trot? If you're having more sitting trot issues, how do you normally try to absorb the motion?

[Della]

Hi Cheryl

You have written about your lordosis and the efforts that you have made to conteract this.

However, I think that this has a direct effect on your difficulty to absorb the horse's movement with your lower body/legs.

An exercise I have used for several clients with a similar lower back problem is to make sure they are sitting with a 'vertical pelvis', i.e. neither on the pubic arch, nor tucking their bottom underneath and leaning back. Then, keeping the stomach muscles relaxed, allow the upper body to tip very slightly forward from the level of the solar plexus.

If you have been working on core strength etc this action will make you feel like you have collapsed through your body. I can assure you that you have not. However, because your stomach muscles are relaxed, the muscles down either side of your spine, and in the lumbar area, will also be relaxed (not many of us can pull in our stomachs without tensing the back muscles).

With the back muscles relaxed you can start to think about how the body weight drops around the horse and how, if there is no undue tension in the legs, you can allow gravity to take the body weight down the legs and it is this that will stabilise the lower leg.

Don't forget the 'wet towels' analogy re the legs.

I hope this make some sense. As always, it is easier to demonstrate than write about!

[Heather]

Cheryl,

Do you know if your current instructor is influenced by, or trained in, Ride With Your Mind?

Would you also say you are a little tight in the hips, Cheryl?

[Cheryl]

Hi,

Thank-you for your responses

Della, I think you may be spot on.  Infact, in the lesson i had the other day (as described above) I did mention the concern I had that in straightening my lower back by engaging my core I may inadvertently end up tensing my lower back and therefore stop myself from absorbing the movement!!! It seems in 'fixing' one think another problem emerges! The instructor said that the lower back should stay relatively still and that the movement is absorbed through the hips (is this in contradiction to EE methods of complimentary?)

Della do you offer lessons?  I am wondering if I need to come up to Heather's again to use the equisimulator but would really like to follow this up with a ridden lesson ideally...

Is the solar plexus the chest bone? What Heather calls 'dipping the headlights'?  I definately do need to allow gravity to do its work on my lower legs and thighs.  Heather, I don't feel particulary tight in my hips-but I am narrow hipped and think I need to open up my hip flexors...

[crdodgeon]

Don't want to muddy the waters, but the hip-flexor thingy is something I've been instructed to work on. After a session with my chiro on hip flexors it was fascinating - been given various exercises on that. Does involve someone to help you with some of the stretches 

[Flyingfox]

I am narrow hipped too and I have a big wide horsey and I have been finding that - as already suggested here - dropping my little toe lower than my big toe helps a lot to stabilise my lower leg, plus doing a hovering or standing trot has helped too - it makes you keep your feet under you - no-one has told me to do this, I just found it seemed to help me when I did it - probably I am just wierd though so maybe it wont help everyone!! Thought I would share it just in case though!

[Mossy]

Just caught up with this thread, sorry. The best bit of advice I have ever been given comes from Lucinda Green, via an acquaintance of mine, "Balls to the Fore!" It straightenes your core, puts your bum in the right place and sorts your legs out, all at once. Oh and makes you laugh. Last time I forgot that very wise piece of advice, madam was well aware of it and very kindly allowed me to precede her! Mind you I have got an HM saddle, which does make the job much easier.

[Cheryl]

He he! Please explain the analogy for me...Di we imagine we are men or do u mean feet balls? X