Floppy legs

[Flyingfox]

Dear all,
Try as I might, My legs will just not keep still when I am in trot when I ride Fox, my ID x Appaloosa 16.3hh horse They flop and move about on every stride, rising or sitting.  I am pretty sure that they are more still (not perfect, but more still) when I ride my other horses - which are more narrow than he is.
I wonder if it is his width that makes me find this more difficult on him? I am not tight in my hips, but I am pretty narrow hipped-especially for my height, as I am 5ft 11 with a 35inch inside leg and a long thin thigh - but then many male riders are taller than me and have narrow hips too with long thighs, so maybe this is irrelevant?

I am a bit depressed really that I just cannot seem to get this right on him at home - It is improved when I ride under Heathers watchful eye but I just cannot seem to recreate it here at home. 

Any bright ideas to try out?   

Currently, I am trotting without stirrups, with toes pointed down - as Heather has suggested, and this does definitely help, (except when Fox trots off too fast and nearly loses me my balance!)  but I notice I do tend to grip with my calf more while doing this excercise, which is driving him on a bit - which may or may not be a good thing......
I am also sometimes using equilibrium straps on the stirrups - these definitely help, and kill my legs, so must therefore be good on the no pain, no gain measure, but will my legs just flop about again once they are removed?

I am perfectly happy to sit a trot all day without stirrups without gripping at all, if I let my legs just hang there doing nothing - which is what I have always done before, but when they hang like this on Foxy, they seem to flop against him on every stride and if I tense up the knee, or the ankle to stop the flop, I dont feel I sit as well any more, as I bounce a bit.

I just cannot seem to transfer the stiller leg I get trotting without stirrups (or with straps on) to trotting with stirrups with no straps.
Should I need to persevere with the toe down, sitting trot? Am I doing it wrong if I grip with my calf?
Should I keep perservering with using the balance straps?
Should I get my hips widened?
Should I get metal braces fitted on my ankles to keep them from flopping?
Fit velco to horses sides?
Do something different altogether?
None of the above?

If no-one comes up with a better suggestion, I will just have to go and camp out with Fox at Heathers until I can get it right every time I trot him! Its up to you all to come up with suggestions I can try at home in order to save Heather from this possbily long lasting endurance test! 

[happy-horses]

Can I have your long legs please ? 

Its hard to recreate what you can do on lessons at home as you haven't got the instant feed back. I wouldn't be to depressed as you can do it, it takes time for it to become muscle memory 
Do you wear long boots? that might help untill your legs are stronger. If the horse isn't going forward that doesn't help flappy legs either.
The width prop isn't helping, here's a comical pic of my flappy legs 
Like you I'm not very wide in the hips, my legs are much improved now after several years of practising yoga and have recently changed saddle aswell which is better and allows my legs to hang much better then before 

[TashaKat]

Are you using Heather's method of absorbing the movement?  

It's possible that you're using both seatbones together rather than letting them move independantly from each other and with the horse.

What saddle are you using?  How are the stirrup bars set?  It's a lot harder when you're fighting the 'regular' stirrup bars rather than set back ones as you have to hoick yourself up and down to try and keep up with the movement.  If you're finding it easier without stirrups this could be part of your problem.

I can't get the links as I'm at work but it's worth having a look at Heather's YouTube clips.

[Flyingfox]

Hi happy-horses
I love your horse - he is an unusual colour and not unlike my funny coloured horse, Fox, who is getting greyer and greyer with a mighty strong acting roaning gene! He is the horse I am riding in my pic on here.

you said: Like you I'm not very wide in the hips, my legs are much improved now after several years of practising yoga and have recently changed saddle aswell which is better and allows my legs to hang much better then before

well I cannot use either as my 'excuse'  for my misbehaving legs because I taught yoga and meditation for the county council for a few years and I am using a lovely new Fhoenix Vogue saddle! I had a Strada before which was a beautiful saddle, but it placed me in a beautiful chair seat!

I rode another horse after posting the original post and I definitely can keep my legs stiller with Storm compared to when I ride Fox. Foxy boy is inclined to be not as forward going as the other two horses I ride, but he is SO much better at going forwards  these days - especially more so after having had some lessons with Heather    Fox listens really well to my seat and the slightest change in my position makes him wonder if I am asking for a halt, or rein back, or a shoulder in or something, and he respondes very quickly to changes in my balance - often misinterpreting them as intentional when they were not; poor boy is being confused by my attempts to alter my legs behaviour!

TashaKat
I am trying to use HM method of alternate seat bones (I have been guilty of pelvic thrust riding I fear in the past - and collapsing my lower abs to absorb the movement and leaning back a little too - it was the way I was taught to do it for years) and I have been on a simulator course and found it very easy to sit trot and rise to trot correctly on the simulator, but not so easy to replicate on Fox!

I just cant ride my own horse thats all!   I can ride my daughters horses, but not mine! I have looked at countless clips and I have been trying so hard, but to no avail it seems. I will keep perservering of course!  

Long legs are great, - but no breeches or johdpurs or riding trousers or over-trousers EVER fit - they are always way too short and often way too big in the waist too, and its the same with Jeans - no cheap ones ever fit me - mens are too big in the waist, ladies are always too short and cut for a person who has got some hips - which I have not!  -Airline seats or small cars  - well - I end up trying to put my legs on the seat in front or out the window  

[Flyingfox]

Oh and I use leather zip up the front joddy boots with leather chaps.Maybe I should try using my tight long black competition boots to see if they fix my legs. I feel that they flop rather than flap, but maybe they flap too.......... not sure.

[Heather]

Hmmm, I still think you must be using both seatbones together a bit Jacquie, if the lower leg is flapping. Are you still trying to lower that little toe?This I find makes the biggest difference in rising trot especially.

[Flyingfox]

I am trying to lower my little toe, but perhaps not enough - and probably not consistently. As for seatbones I expect you are right here too. The thing is. it is something I have been actively TAUGHT to do - together with the absorbtion of movement using my middle to 'buffer' the bounce - I have been doing this for many, many years, so it is not going to be easy to get rid of that quickly I suppose. 

I will just keep on trying - that is - as soon as my arena thaws out a bit I will ........ Snow and ice have stopped play in last few days!

[Heather]

Fox is a very comfortable horse, Jacquie, so I think you are still just trying to do too much! If we can still go ahead with the coffeee morning/demo on the 11th- wretched weather permitting, we will work on that then!!