Riding With 2 Reins

[Joy70]

Ive been battling with my boy now for a while with bits and bitting!  :( ive tried many different things and still to no avail, this weekend we went bitless in the school  :blink: which is fine if thats where i want to stay! but out in the open, completely useless! so i decided to try Heathers beloved Pelham for a hack out with my friend! having never used two reins before i decided id give it a go!, the ride out was o.k. and we had brakes   for the first time ever, although they could have been more effective! he mouthed his bit and foamed! a first for him too   although he did keep opening his mouth & trying to evade me which he does on all bits! even a french link snaffle!

So a few questions i need to ask!

a) is it ok to put a flash on with a pelham?
B) I seem to have had the reins in the wrong fingers, ie, curb rein was under my little finger instead of between third & little finger! what difference would this have made to us out on our ride!?
c) the curb chain wasn't tightened & i couldn't take it off as i  had no pliers, is this o.k.
d) when i ride next & have the reins in the correct fingers   how do i use each rein individually or should i use them both at the same time???

we seem to have ridden most of the way (except for fast work) on the snaffle rein, but he did push through his shoulders and lean on it despite my efforts to sit and balance him and try to bring him back! although in trot he still does it but not as bad! strange thing is, in the school hes an angel and his transistions are generally good! out on the road in company he seems to forget me & his manners  

[Mandeigh]

I would try to resist putting a flash on with a pelham, there is already a curb action with the chain and to be honest you may find that your boy actually fights more.

If the curb rein was under your little finger, this would have been ( in theory) the more active rein......unless really loose.  Some horses respond better to the curb rein, for others too much curb can encourage over bending, don't forget the curb is the longer end of the bit so more leverage on the head as well as the chain.  A rubber guard covering the chain is really effective and much more comfortable.  To use the reins individually you need to be able to open and close the fingers when giving the instructions, if you keep the hands closed, all you can really do is pull backward.

Although your boy is fine in the school, it would be a good idea for you to get some practise with handling the pelham in an environment that he is a bit quieter and more cooperative in, that way you can just work away on it without added stress......this might help when you come to take him out again.

edited for lousy spelling

[karen thompson]

Hi,

I also have tried Heather's advice and ridden Sorrell in a Pelham, mind you this was more for his flat work than to deal with issues out hacking. It helped me to collect him more and allowed him to softed his jaw. The other thing that Heather told me though was to use an elastic curb which I did, this meant the curb was softer and allowed some movement and he accepted it quite readily. I also had a little bit of a problem with over bending and had to remember to keep sending him forward and not allow him to fix on my hands, giving a taking of the contact did the trick and he learnt to stay in his outline and carry himself.

I have to admit I don't always ride him in his pelham now and I only use it in the school but he now hacks out queitly in a happy mouth of all bits with a flash noseband.

Karen

[Joy70]

Im going to try and find an elasticated curb for my pelham at the weekend, this is the next time i'll be able to ride him

Im still struggling with the concept of 2 reins!

do they need to be both the same tightness as each other??? as the curb rein yesterday was very loose, so probly not even coming into effect

also i have dodgy lil fingers, not much use in them at all, is there any other way that i could hold my reins ? or can someone explain to me in really really simple terms how i actually do it!!??? my fingers didn't seem to be able to move the rein that was under my little finger at all!!! would that be because they were too loose

 :unsure:  

[cptrayes]

Joy, I swapped to a double bridle recently and had exactly the same trouble. I did some research (I got all my books out and looked at Grand Prix riders  B) )and there are quite a few ways of holding the reins. I suggest you experiment until you find the one which allows you the most control over the two reins independently, or whichever just works best for you and your horse. Likewise how much slack, or not, to have in the curb rein seems to be a matter of choice. But if you don't do the curb chain up snug, then I found that the whole bit can jiggle around quite a bit if you have a horse with a mobile mouth, like mine   .


My favourite way:

the S rein under the little finger and out between the thumb and first finger. The C rein under the ring finger and out between the first and second, so it is only held by two fingers and you can't put too much pressure on it. This way, unless you move your whole hand which is also an option open to you, you have independent control of each rein. To actively use the snaffle rein, if your little fingers are not particularly mobile, then you can rotate your whole hand downward from the wrist momentarily, which pulls your little finger backwards without engaging the curb rein.


Maybe the commonest way:

S rein under the little finger and out between the thumb and first finger. The C rein under the ring finger and out between the thumb and first finger. This way you can only adjust the C rein by moving one finger as the two reins are anchored together at the top.


Another common way:

The S rein between the ring finger and the little finger and out between the thumb and first finger. The C rein between the second finger and the ring finger and out between the thumb and the first finger.


And another way again:

The S rein between the ring finger and the little finger and out between the thumb and first finger. The C rein between the second finger and the ring finger and out between the first finger and the second finger. Almost no control of the curb at all like that!


And this one too:

The S rein between the ring finger and the little finger and out between the thumb and first finger. The C rein between the second finger and the first finger and out between the thumb and the first finger. The curb is only wrapped around your first finger. Really can't see how you control it at all like that!


Wouldn't this have been so much easier with some pictures !


C.

[Joy70]

yes pix would have been a great help! but thank you all the same! im going to have a play around at the weekend!

If i cannot get an elasticated curb, in will do the curb chain up tighter as it wasn't really any use at all! but i do feel he dislikes the curb action hence riding with it loose, or even considering taking it off alltogether!  :unsure:

 

[carlos]

Hiya Joy

Carlos is ridden in a straight rubber pelham - he evades and runs with everything else (my fault - i feel safer in a pelham).  He rides wonderfully with or without a curb chain - but you can get an elastic curb from Sharnford Lodge. When he evades have you tried holding just the bottom (pelham) rein and not both - to work Carlos in i work a lot with the bottom rein to free his mouth up and to loosen through his neck then as soon as i want to use both reins together i get the perfect contact and head position.  If he tries to run away at the canter or strikes off onto the incorrect leg at canter i drop my top rein and carry on on a slack bottom rein.

I move my little fingers just a tiny bit to use my bottom rein just enought for Carlos to feel the pressure but nothing so as i'm pulling on him at all.

Just a thought.



Regards Carlos and Kerry. :P  

[cptrayes]

Hi Kerry, could you be a little bit clearer with "top and bottom". With two reins the top rein on the bit is the snaffle and the bottom rein on the bit is the curb. In your hand, it's customary to ride with the top rein being the curb and the bottom rein being the snaffle, with the reins crossing in the middle. Your answer can therefore be read both ways!  :unsure: I think I know what you mean, but just in case?

 

[carlos]

I may have read your question wrong but here goes - i use the bottom rein as the curb and the top rein as the snaffle - the bottom rein sits on my little fingers so as i can squeeze with enough pressure to ask for a flexion of the neck.

I've never crossed them in the middle - am i supposed to??? Little bit confused now - ah well this way works wonders for my horses.

Regards Kerry.xx

[Joy70]

well when i looked in Heathers book, she picks up the snaffle rein & places it on the outside & under the lil finger & then the curb rein between lil finger & ring finger so the reins are crossed yes

When i tried to ride with two reins at the weekend, id got the curb at the bottom under my lil finger & then the snaffle ring between my lil finger & ring fingers with no cross in them  but i was struggling to activate the rein that sat under my lil finger.

so now im even more confused  :lol:

looked at a few explanations and descriptinos etc., i know the reins should be crossed on the outside! but until i get on Neddy next and try it out im going to be non the wiser!

and another question regarding reins & contact!

what is an open hand??? (read this last night in a magazine) does this mean bring your inside hand out away from the neck/withers or does it mean you open your fingers

and exactly how much weight should you feel at the end of your reins??? i was always taught as Heather was originally, to have to 20lbs of pressure! or 2 bags of sugar at the end of my hands, which not only makes him pull & lean even more it makes my fingers very sore  :(  

[sandpiper]

The most common way to hold the reins of a double is with the snaffle rein under your little fingers and the curb rein between the third and fourth, so the reins cross.  You can hold them in any way that is comfortable but they will have slightly different effects on the horse's mouth.

In very simplistic terms if you think of the curb for lowering the head, and the snaffle for raising it; so once you are competent with their use you can achieve a high degree of fine tuning.

You shouldn't have equal pressure on both reins, the curb should generally be looser and you should be able to use it independently of the snaffle; only bringing it into play when needed.  When I ride in a double I think of primarily riding my horse with the snaffle rein, with the curb there for back up when I need a bit of fine tuning.

[cptrayes]

Hi Joy,

an open hand is where you hold your hand away from the neck. I've never heard that term used to describe opening the fingers.

Regarding weight in the hand, I have given up going to trainers and now rely on my video recorder, because I do not agree with them about the amount of weight that they want in my hand. I have trained my horses to go with almost no contact - pretty much only just enough to keep the reins from drooping, and sometimes not even that! Whilst it undoubtedly causes me some issues (eg steering, with young horses who don't understand their own responsiblity to stay straight yet ) the result when it all goes right is a complete delight. It begins to feel as if you are riding the horse from your mind and not with your body at all.

Other downsides that I get criticised for are that if they do set onto the rein with a lot of weight, you do sometimes have to twitch the rein, or even give a fairly obvious tug, to get them off it. But I would much rather do that than hang onto the rein with loads of weight in my hand all the time. And if you're on a less mature horse, you won't get the power that dressage judges are looking for in competition unless you hang onto the front end and drive the back end up behind it. Personally, I chose to get bad marks and to wait until my horses can give me power without leaning on the rein, and my older horse which turns eight soon is rewarding me now with fantastic lengthening and an increasingly powerful trot. It was worth waiting for.

Hope this all helps.

Caroline.
 

[chapsi]

I ride with double reins. My snaffle rein between my little and ring fingers, the curb rein between the ring and third fingers; both reins cross on the outside.
I keep minimal contact (no "pulling 2 bags of sugar"), in fact I keep my fingers almost open, unless I have to communicate with the horse. Then, I close my fingers or simply action them like the squeezing of a sponge.

[carlos]

oooohhh
I've never been taught to cross the reins at all - though horse's happy with how i hold my reins - so that's all that counts.  Interesting though.x

[Tabitha]

Hi,

The idea of crossing the reins is so that most of the action goes on to the snaffle rein, rather than the curb rein. By having the snaffle rein on the outside there is more tension in the rein. This allows for more contact between the snaffle rein and the mouth, meaning that you can easily vibrate that rein or tweak it as and when necessary. Ideally the curb rein should be quite loose and only used to provide the extra leverage as and when you need it. Because of this it is kept on the inside of the snaffle rein.

The only problem with riding the other way round would be if you hang on to the reins then the continuous poll pressure would cause the horse to lean on your hands over time.

 :lol: