....and this is why bitless isn't taken seriously

[Belbe]

...bitless and anything "natural" for thar matter. Basically the 2 people I know that actually work horses in a correct, supple frame using "natural" methods are my teacher and Klaus. Everywhere else I look I see horses going just as bad or worse than modern dressage examples.

See that book cover?? Someone actually dared to place a horse fallig forward with the nuchal-tail ligament pulling his quarters up in the cover of a training book! 
hell, I may not know how to correctly train a horse but that right there is the absolute oposite of collection!
What's the point of going bitless if you're jamming the horse's knees with unbalanced posture just the same? not to state the impact it has on his mental atitude to be subdued that way! Doesn't anyone understand that it is the wrong use of pressure that damages the horse the most and not the amount of pressure? Now that the 3 horses I ride got used to a common padded halter they react as nice or as upset to it as they did to a curb bit! it only depends on the fairness and good use of the aids, not wether it hurts or not.

Another huge misconception is that they can do everything on a cross-under bitless bridle! if you look at it's construction you'll see it's action generates the same responses as a Curb bit and a curb bit only! it sucks just about as much as a curb for lateral and upward action. If you whant to use it for propper dressage you need a second pair of reins attached to something that works as a snaffle, like say a cavesson or a sidepull. Obvioulsy an advanced horse goes mostly of seat aids and seldom needs the snaffle but this is not the case for the gross majority of horses!

seriously, where's this world comin to when noone can recognise collection anymore? nor the horse's good/bad spirits, suppleness, relaxation?? I'm not saying it's an easy feat to achieve those but they should be obvious to observe! have we all gone blind? maybe it's the ozone layer whole... we're all getting cataracts from UV exposure...

[ash]

.......aaaaannnnd breeeeeeaaaaathe! 

[issywizz]

I dunno,I think its quite an achievement to get your horse so overbent without a bit 
Sorry I know I shouldnt laugh 

[TashaKat]

Aw come on Belbe, don't you know that bitless is kind and bits are cruel/the work of the devil 

I've ridden bitless but was super careful not to put too much pressure on ... have to agree with Sarah though, that's quite an achievement    Of course I'm sure that it's only a moment in time    Though why you'd put it as your book cover I'm not quite sure 

[issywizz]

Cos horseys look preddy with their necks curled up Tashacat,didnt you know that? Tsk!
Last years BAPSH brochure had a nice curled up neck too. 

[intouch]

Don't you know you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover?  

[catkin]

all I shall say is that when I rode the Welsh Princess in a sidepull because she was teething she hated it - and was very relieved to get back to her bit (she practically bridles herself but turned her head right away from the bitless bridle too).

[issywizz]

Don't you know you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover?  

 

[Trudi]

Well I shan't aim and fire at the pics, there are many better and worse in my own album (and I'd guess most of all of ours) and lately I've come to the conclusion that we don't help the cause of calm, considered, gymnastic training of horses by picking holes in other folks work. I wouldn't mind betting that if bitless were an easy route to achieving perfect collection then many would already have got that t-shirt, truth is it is rarely shown because most people come to the conclusion early on that it is easier with a bit. Just for the record I'm currently working bitless because it opens up completely new channels of communication for me; I don't need to brand myself 'bitless' any more than I need to say my horses are 'barefoot'. The basic science of collection remains the same regardless of a bit, it's not the bit that produces the collection but the training; many can talk the talk but only a few will be able to walk........

[ash]

Good post Trudi. 

[Belbe]

Don't you know you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover?  

loooooooooooooool! well said! (and truth be told I supose there must be some good content in the book though I don't know why it was written in the first place! I've been using the guidelines written by Nuno Oliveira, Anja Beran, Heather herself, you name it on a halter and the horse responds the same way! I don't see why you should need a book to ride bitless! the principle is the same! It's more or less as ridiculous as writing a book about using spurs. As far as I know, they work the same as your heels but sharper so you need to be softer, same as bit or no bit. Again, All I think should be written is the explanation of how each bitless bridle works! Same way one should know how each bit works.

Tashakat, it is rather strange that she does it on a sidepull! Maybe it was spoilt by a bit before... but it is very easy in a Dr.Cook: cross-unders work like curb bits in that they exert pressure at the poll and under the chin and sensitive horses tend to react by overbending. Sidepulls tend to work as snaffles and the horse will evade by lifting the nose instead. In my lil practice wa works best is a simple halter, only the weight of the reins on your hands and a goooood explanation session (with as many recyclings as needed) of what each rein cue means.

Trudi, I'm not cursing the photo on it's own, I'm cursing it being used as a book cover! wich means the author trully believes it is a good example of whatever she thinks she's doing! that's the screaming scary truth! most of us have far worse photos but I'm betting at least in this forum the majority would recognise it's wrong! even if didn't have a clue of how to fix it!

[Trudi]

lol Belbe, no agreed you weren't but I remember even Heather saying how hard it was to find correct pictures for her book (obviously Chris has sorted that out  ) I'm not supporting the book it's just here on EE everyone is so kind to each other but can be pretty harsh on others and that is a recuring pattern you find around the web and it always disappoints me.

Totally agree about training through well rehearsed cues maybe there's a book in it  

[Emma]

Not that it adds to the discussion but here's a pic I like of riding in a bosal !


x

[ukica]

  lovely piccie emma.

i just gave up the bitless route for now!  Strange as it seems, my horse goes a lot better in a loose ring snaffle than a dr cooks....i wanted to ride bitless but i just wasn't happening for us.

[ash]

Ukica, your comment just made me think (and this isn't aimed at you or anyone at all in particular), often people will try one type of bitless bridle, and if their horse doesn't get on with it say "Oh bitless isn't for me, my horse doesn't like it."

Yet the same person might then go and try five, ten, twenty different types of bits until they fine one that their horse 'likes' and 'goes well in'.

Not at all a criticism, each to their own, but just a phenomenon I have noticed, (mainly because I've done it myself as well!).