AK's/others rope handling?

[Trudi]

I've been really enjoying the mat work with Chapiro and although I've tried it at liberty and ridden I have yet to try it in-hand and wonder (as PK recommended it) should I get my rope skills in line with Alexandra Kurland's ideas? I'm rubbish at lists and am wading through this bit by bit so that I can actually make a list at some point, perhaps  It's a bit like I've been thrown in the pool not knowing how to swim but have somehow managed to wave my arms and legs about enough to keep afloat  it ain't swimming but it ain't drowning 
So back to my main point, I know is there a  DVD from AK that covers rope skills but I'd quite like to hear from others on subject, please  Remember I'm old and set in my ways  and I'm pretty new to CT and am trying to weave it into my existing work. All ideas welcomed thanks.

[ash]

I've just got the DVD version of lesson 1, and at the very end where it reviews the six basic lessons, there is a little snippet of mat work.  Contained within that little snippet is about a minutes worth of AK discussing the best rope handling technique to use when introducing matwork.

Really what she discusses is nothing more than a simple change of grip  on the rope, in order to effectively get the horse to take a kind of half step forward on to the mat, rather than a big step over, either backwards or forwards.

I have to say, this very very simple thing struck me as quite brilliant, and it has reinforced my intention to get the t'ai chi rope handling DVD.

So maybe not a great answer to your question, but just that little bit was enough to convince me that there is a more refined and thoughtful way to use ropes than I had previously considered! 

[hilary]

Reckon you are doing pretty well

Alex's rope handling on the ground very much ties in with the same feel when ridden . 
By the way C/T can be done without the above, and the ropehandling exercises can be done separately.

Her work comes from the premise that we don't just use positive reinforcement with horses when C/T but we do use pressure and release. If I change the word pressure for "feel", then we use feel and release. It might be semantics but it kind of changes something in my head! This is best done in a flat headcollar ( not a rope one)

So, making sure one is using ones core stability , one slides up the road , using fine motor control, ( thumb ,forefinger( rather than gross ( whole hand) to the Point of Contact,( where one is connected with the horse). If the horses pushes into you, he whole aim is to use core stability and bone rotations ( stretch your arm out to sid, rotate it, and your arm becomes longer is an example!) to deflect the energy in a different direction, ie you are not pushing back ( but you will have to hav that core strength to remain neutral

I think the video is worth getting, as I cant explain in words!! All the exercises can be done with another person   -  who can feedback what your rope handling feels like, before you take it to the horse - surprisingly effective.

[Pikku Karhu]

there is a more refined and thoughtful way to use ropes than I had previously considered! 

That really sums it up brilliantly! 

To me, the t'ai chi rope handling is about two things: First, a way of using the rope in a way that becomes a very refined and smooth way of communication, rather than just a method of steering the horse. The silk smooth feel you get with t'ai chi rope handling is quite unlike anything else I had ever experienced before... I think of it a little like ground handling equivalent of riding a la Heather, with invisible aids, finesse and lightness. Secondly, as clicker training steers away from punishment and any rough methods of controlling the horse, some techniques in t'ai chi rope handling will give you tools to deal with hairy moments without resorting to things that wouldn't be clicker compatible (comes down to avoiding poisoned cues again).

There's quite a lot to take on with the t'ai chi rope handling, and like Hilary says, it isn't easy to explain in words alone... and I really recommend doing the exercises with a person first, as it normally takes a while to get the mechanics right and you can learn faster and avoid confusing your horse if you practise it with a person first.

Another point worth making is that Alex's in-hand work, done in a headcollar and using the t'ai chi rope handling, transfers really well into the Becky style in-hand work and then on to riding. With Jensen, the Alex style in-hand work was a necessary step in order to access the Becky style work - so it can be used as a baby step leading to other things.

So, making sure one is using ones core stability , one slides up the road , using fine motor control, ( thumb ,forefinger( rather than gross ( whole hand) to the Point of Contact,( where one is connected with the horse).

I think she means slides up the rope... 

[hilary]

Whoops!

My excuse is I just got home from working overnight

You are right that it totally fits in with Becky's stuff  -   but Alex does loads of steps before you get to 2 reins. IT works so that when Becky asks for that opening step it is there  to be had.


Alex's concept of single rein riding too , is very different than eg the what I understood - namely one rein. It is more Riding in a triangle, -   but that is a whole different topic.

[Trudi]

Great stuff and thanks to you all. Ash, that is just the sort of info I need but now I'm wondering do I need to buy the preceeding DVD's and then the ones after the rope handling 
As always PK and Hilary I very much appreciate your input. The problem I have is that I don't think I can just follow AK's DVD's and adopt it all on my own, I'm not actually sure I would be capable of it or even that I'd want to. The rope stuff sounds brilliant and I think perhaps I could encorporate that as I have done very little in-hand with Chapsi, mainly the liberty work. At my age I have some rather deep seated methods (although I have changed quite a lot in the last couple of years  ) so I hope that it's not wrong to take bits and pieces 
On the other hand  I do like the idea of the 'feel and release' Hilary  as this is how I'm cuing the turning (ridden) ie slightly move the nose (by even 1cm is enough) and release; this does have a feel/release quality to it, good terminology Hilary.
PK I love the idea that the rope work could help me out if I hit hairy moments  I really hate to think I could undo all the work in one bad moment. I have to say as an advert for AK's work you and Jensen are excellent and have given me inspiration.
OK, I guess that's me getting the rope DVD  is that DVD 2 then Ash?

[ash]

Have a look at this site Trudi

www.smaarthorses.co.uk

On the books and DVDs section, they have a synopsis of each of the DVDs.

I had the videos of lessons 1-4 which I sold to Diane on here, and am replacing them with the DVDs.  Lessons 1-4 were I think the original ones that AK put out, and as far as I can understand are the real fundamentals.

I have also ordered lesson 5 which is the Why Would You Leave Me? stuff, and lesson 7 which is T'ai Chi rope handling.  I will get the others in due course, but I am prioritising the ones that I think would be most useful to Faith and I at the moment.

I really like the DVDs because I need to know how something 'looks', before I feel confident trying it.  There are also so many fine details that you can only access I think through DVDs (or even better one to one instruction), and that can't really be communicated by the written word.

Have a look through AK's website www.theclickercenter.com, there is loads of really fabulous stuff on there, and Amanda Martin from smaarthorses is really fab and helpful too.  In fact Amanda has said that she is going to put up some vids of her work on here too, which will be great.

My advice would be to read the synopsis of each DVD and pick what appeals to you, or what you think you most want to work on, all the DVDs are incredibly detailed and helpful, and you will get more out of them each time you watch them.

I hope that helps.

[ash]

Right, my T'ai Chi rope handling DVD arrived today.  Will try and watch it asap and give you a review.

Did manage to watch my lesson 5 DVD today, which is the Why Would You Leave Me? exercise (while munching my way through a bag of liquorice - bliss!).  I just have to say that I am blown away by the attention to detail of these DVDs, even down to discussing the power of bone rotations in the arm during food delivery, so that you can place the horse where you want him very precisely but without any aggro and unecessary pressure.

The more I watch of this woman, the more I am convinced that she is a genius! 

[Trudi]

  cool, thanks for all that Ash, much appreciated. I'll look forward to your thoughts on the rope handling DVD and hope we'll see some of Amanda's vids on here 

[ash]

Right, I'm only an hour into the T'ai Chi rope handling DVD, but I have got to write this down now, or I will forget what it is I want to say.

Firstly, this DVD is definately an 'audience participation' experience, and I can absolutely see that the more you practise this stuff, the better and more effective it becomes, and the more effortless it will become as you will train your muscle memory.

It will help if you have a partner who you can practise the first few exercises with, preferably someone who doesn't have any preconceptions about what you are doing, so that they will give you true responses as to the effects of the different rope handling techniques. 

It is a really multi layered and in depth DVD, and I suspect that as you practise the movements more and more, different layers to the experience will appear, and this is something that AK mentions at the start of the DVD.  So to really get the most out of this you can't afford to be passive about it, you really need to use this stuff, and do the exercises.

On a very superficial level, while working with Faith this morning, I used one of the bone rotation exercises that AK recommends for treat delivery (I think I mentioned it in my previous post).  Now when I watched it being demonstrated on the DVD, it's main purpose was to reposition the horse in a way that didn't use force, and only employed minimum pressure, so basically using the treat delivery as a tool to reposition the horse exactly where you want him.

Using this with Faith this morning, I also found that by using this gesture not only did I 1. deliver the treat effectively, and 2. reposition her body using minimal pressure, but I also noticed a third aspect.  She 'listened' to the gesture, and by this I mean that it really focused her attention.  So it took on more significance than just being a way to get the treat to her mouth, it became an instruction, and held her attention.  She was 'listening' to the way in which the treat was delivered.

So that is what I mean when I say that this stuff is multi-layered, as you use it, you discover deeper meanings and messages that are given through the way you move your body, and through the way in which the horse responds, and it really is quite powerful.

I shall give you more mad ramblings when I have practised some of the stuff with hubby this evening.  I've told him we are going to do some T'ai Chi rope handling tonight, and judging by his reaction, I think he is going to find the reality of what we are going to do, somewhat different to what is currently going on in his head! 

I hope that some of that is at least vaguely comprehensible! 

[hilary]