Triangulating Piaffe, is it always a fault?

[issywizz]

Trudi-yes,where Im at is wondering whether you can obtain the flexion of the hinds *through* the piaffe or whether you need to approach it through other exercises first?
Ive asked my trainer if we can start some piaffe work which we are going to do over the next few weeks,so hopefully that will give some answers as Ive started him off so that hes diagonalising now ( which Heather also helped with on the last clinic) so at least we have something to begin shaping.

[Pikku Karhu]

Love this discussion!  Do you think conformation plays a part in the rounder versus nose above vertical as well though? Compo world is obsessed with rounder frame, but the warmbloods preferred by most compo riders have thinner & longer necks so it'll be easier for them to stay round in more collected work, while many classical trainers have Iberians, often stallions, with huge necks so maybe sometimes not physically possible to piaffe correctly AND with nose at vertical? Especially if in addition, the way the head and neck are connected isn't ideal, ie. thick throatlatch? So are the ideals/fashions at least partially dictated by the type of horse preferred, and what they do and don't find easy? Which kind of comes back to what IW said about looking at the whole horse and working them in a way they need at any given time... 

I also prefer the 1st piaffe pic of Ketchup, and love the fact you are not forcing the frame rounder just for the sake of it. 

Look forward to hearing everyone's input in the chicken/egg regarding piaffe - outwith my experience, so eagerly awaiting to learn more.

Trudi how do you address it when Moo rushes to avoid flexing behind?

[Camacoona]

When I started Ketchup, I started paiffe work ridden.  I started from the rein back and built in some rein back to trot transitions gradually slowing the trot transitions and holding more on the spot.  My problem with this method, was that Ketchup found it easy to drive the hindlegs under a bit too straight.  Her back looked round, her hindlegs were 'under' but there wasn't any flexion of the joint system.  In her reinbacks she was a little to low in front and rushed back to avoid carrying the weight behind.

Shortly after I started the piaffe work Ketchup was put in foal so she had a 18 months off work.  Whe she came back into work I had discovered clicker training and inhand work.  I remember 'discovering' it just about the same time as Becky moved down to Heather's so it fit in really well that I could incorporate it into my EET training.  With the inhand work I worked more on the Sh/i to get the hindlegs where I wanted them and incorporated reinback then shoulder in in a very collected walk almost counted walk.  then from there building up the piaffe. 

You are so right though, you must school what you are riding at the time... some days I would ride the Piaffe from the rein back, other days from the walk shoulder in.  Sometimes I would make a transition out of paiffe to a walk, soemtimes to a trot and othertimes I would Halt.  All depending on what I was feeling underneath. 

It is such a long process, and I can't really remember all the mini steps I have taken because it is so long.  Its likle schooling the trot, it take four years or more.  And so too it takes 4 years or more to perfect the piaffe from starting schooling it to bringing about perfection (for that particular horse.)

[Heather]

Haha, I remember your early in hand piaffe efforts, Omar. I am not sure who had the best piaffe, you or Ketchup?

Heather

[Camacoona]

   I know Heather, It is now firmly established in my repertoire! 

I'm not sure how I thought it would help , do you know soemthing, I think I may still do that at times!! I think I used to stay too much on the spot, and that helped me to move along with the horse, rather than rushing forward to catch up. 

  Thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it. 

[Trudi]

Trudi how do you address it when Moo rushes to avoid flexing behind?

I'll start a new thread on this, don't want to clog up Omar's super thread.


I'd love to see Omar and Ketchup's 'pas de deux' 

[Heather]

I have a video of it somewhere, Trudi, must try and find it!

[issywizz]

Thanks for that,its as I thought really-see what you get and work out how to shape it into what you want!
If only there were one technique for every horse life would be so much simpler!
Still its good to see that you have some nice sit and flexion going on if you started off with straight hinds-gives me hope 

[Trudi]

I have a video of it somewhere, Trudi, must try and find it!

Oh yes please!

[Camacoona]

No her rhythm is much slower now, much less 'irate' !! more like bubbling champagne rather than a boiling cauldren

I would try to have more video taken, but as Heather will attest, my partner Ian is bl**** useless with a recorder!!

Asking Ian to video us, makes me 'irate'!!

[Heather]

Maestoso II Catrina - Piaffe and Levade (Jan 2009)

SueC sent me this, some lovely piaffe towards levade, with Thomas Ritter.


Heather