What do you all think to this? ( vid)

[issywizz]

Helen,yes that makes sense now to me as that is also the picture I see with the grey in piaffe but not with the bay.
Did you watch the bay? as its the bay that H is saying triangulates but I didnt notice it with him and although he does show a tendency to overbend and go too deep in front at times I felt his back end was doing the 'correct' thing through piaffe.
I havent got his books,no,but I heard one or two things that would probably echo your experience  although he is one that does have a huge amount of knowledge.
Trish-the Portugese rider ( the bay horse) is from the Portugese school but he does compete and this is a GP test so whilst not perfect,for me, as a GP test I find it superb-bearing in mind the difficulties involved in riding through the demands and accuracies of a GP test.

[SueC]

First horse is being ridden through a GP test in the GP test way.  A bit too heavy handed and bit too heavy in front for me, but not as bad as many GP tests ridden in the GP way.  It's aimed at competition.

Second horse is showing snippets ridden in different places at different times.  Getting snippets is a bit easier, even I can manage it sometimes. 

However, maybe I'm going senile, blind or both, but no-one else has mentioned it, which surprises me.  In some of the second video the horse looks to me to be being ridden in a double bridle with a grackle noseband, fitted quite low, which I wouldn't expect in a video of snippets demonstrating classical riding?  The second video is clearly snippets as the length of the horse's mane and forelock changes, as does the colour and spread of the darker coloured bits of him.  So either different times of the year, or 2 horses.

Hence, I can't really have a good opinion of either.  One is 'competition', the other is 'fake'. 

[issywizz]

Sue,you are an old grump 

[shoveltrash]

she may be an old grump, but a very observant one!

[Heather]

she may be an old grump, but a very observant one!

I think you can get to the point whereby you see so much that nothing actually is enjoyable anymore though . I confess I only watched the video once, and missed the grakle- which I have just emailed Georges to ask him about ( I rode Rei in a flash noseband- but not tight- and pelham for a time, as he used to get his tongue over it and run backwards in panic, treading on his tail and nearly going over backwards).

But having watched it again, overall, the work is pure, the changes are beautiful, very expressive, the extension superb, the piaffe is triangulating, but he is going down a  slope! The fact that it is bits put together doesnt worry me- I dont think he is just taking good moments in time, because the work shown is for the most part, very correct and extremely light- far more so than the first rider. As the horse is called Goepher, I assume it is the same horse throughout, just maybe different stages of his training- it is a video to promote him as a breeding stallion on their site.

Look at the horse's mouth in the first video round about 1 min 25, though, it opens at each stride as the hands pull back in the passage.

[issywizz]

The thing is if we always look for what is wrong we are going to be missing out on seeing what is good.
There is NO such thing as a perfect example of horse and rider for more than a few seconds or if there is Ive missed it.
Could we not begin to appreciate what is good aswell as what is not perfect?
Very difficult to do I will be the first to admit 
But Heather,honestly how many people could ride a GP test as well as that? YES sometimes the contact gets  a bit strong,sometimes the horse overbends,sometimes the hands get busy,but overall I think there is a LOT to like.
The other horse ( the grey) isnt perfect either just because the contact is softer doesnt make it perfect!
And the two cannot be compared directly as one is snippets of their best work at home whilst the other is riding a GP test-how can you compare the two?
I like both and it would be nice if as well as noting the faults ( cos obviously if we have missed them we arent clever enough  ) we took a few moments to note all that is excellent and well beyond most of us. 

[Heather]

I do like both horses, Sarah, and there is a lot to like in both video clips. I did find the Alter rather expressionless in the canter, which was disappointing as the breed is renowned for this, whereas Goepher ( what an awful name- I expect to see a little furry animal with long teeth, not a beautiful Iberian stallion!!) is gloriously expressive in the changes. This is why I would suspect that if we saw a video of him riding a whole GP test, it would still be very nice work.

I do suspect that this horse might well still triangulate in the piaffe though, even when not on a slope. But as I said, I do wonder if sometimes this is the set of the forelegs as much as anything. PK is very skilled at teaching piaffe, but the black horse of his student in the head to head with Hess, was triangulating pretty badly yet he made no mention of it, having lambasted Michel Henriquet for showing pics of wife Catherine on a warmblood triangulating. So maybe he also feels that the black horse's conformation did not permit the forelegs to be perpendicular?

[issywizz]

Yes the canter didnt have much lift which was suprising but I suspect connected to the overbending also.I just felt he needed to be more up in front in general and I guess that will come as he develops strength  Would be very interesting to be able to see his training process and question the rider about how/what/why etc. In particular because he does have such good sit through the piaffe so I would expect him to power off his Qs more through the canter.
Very confusing this dressage malarkey 

[nona]

I just loved the way Carvalho, around 5.10, in the middle of his canter piroutte, puts the reins in one hand and casually rubs his face.  Should be obligatory in all GP tests 

Nona

[issywizz]

 

[Heather]

Reply from Georges:

Good evening, Philippe Karl has been a very close friend for ...... 35 years! and Odin is the uncle of Goepher. For the noseband: I followed a training course with Goepher and the professor added a noseband so that Goepher keeps the mouth always closed (like the judges of competition  require). I quickly removed this noseband, this is not my philosophy of the work of the horses. This was  bad experiment. The vidéos of Goepher in the forest are filmed the same day (2009) Are the others on Youtube I believe of 2008.

Sorry, it is a babelfish translation from his French! I had mentioned that Goepher looked like Odin, and it seems he is his nephew!