What do you all think to this? ( vid)

[issywizz]

Gonçalo Carvalho

I really liked it,a tad overbent at times and sometimes a bit busy in the mouth but I thought that overall its one of the best GP tests Ive seen,admittedly I could be biased given that its an Iberian 

[Heather]

I saw this on the BT group, too Sarah- there is a lot to like, but felt the contact pretty strong at times, and the canter almost four time at the start of the canter work- lacks expression and swinging quarters in the double pirouettes, piaffe triangulating too. Super horse though.

I preferred this video featured on CD-

Goepher Fleurville

Lusitano but with a lot of PRE blood.

Heather

[issywizz]

Yes I felt that was connected with the BTV,he looked like he could do with being a tad more 'up' in front.
Nevertheless I still thought it was fab 
I actually preferred the one I nicked off FB ,do you not think the grey is triangulating in the piaffe? The are both super though imo-not perfect but very good.

[Heather]

Goncalos horse is triangulating quite a bit though in piaffe. 

[issywizz]

What causes that anyway? 

[whisper's mum]

What causes that anyway? 

Isn't it an  indication taht the horse isn't truly collected and is actually on the forehand? The forelegs have come underneath the body to take the weight and the hind legs can then bounce up and down without actually working correctly. Could be completely wrong though. 

[Heather]

You are correct, Helen 

[Hat Dancer]

What is triangulating please? I.e. what am I looking for? I can understand the explanation, but show me what I am looking for please

[issywizz]

But in that case ( and Im not disagreeing) how can the horse simultaneously show good sit behind as this does? 
Hattie,its when the front legs are back at an angle under the body rather than straight down.

[Hat Dancer]

Aha, thanks 

[whisper's mum]

But in that case ( and Im not disagreeing) how can the horse simultaneously show good sit behind as this does?  
Hattie,its when the front legs are back at an angle under the body rather than straight down.

Although he is appearing to sit, he actually has his hind legs too far underneath him and although they are flexed - they are not carrying much weight! This piaffe doesn't look like it wants to move forward- and it should. Edited to add, I've now watched some of the video (wouldn't work at all for me earlier) rather than the still above and the piaffe is moving forwards but the hindlegs are cramped underneath the body - in my opinion. Still a million times better than I'll ever manage though! 

[Heather]

I do wonder sometimes if conformation comes into this too- whether some horses just cannot get the foreleg completely vertical due to the set of the leg? Philippe Karl had a heck of a row with Michel Henriquet in a French mag for showing pics of wife Catherine on a warmblood triangulating in piaffe, and continued it on his website! Then in the head to head DVD of PK with German FEI judge, Christoph Hess, PK showed a horse of his student, triangulating with the best of them!

Sometimes the hindlegs come so far under and the forelegs so far back that it looks like a 'goat on a mountain'.  If the forelegs are back at an angle it is far more difficult for the ideal of the forehoof to be lifted to half way up the hind cannon bone.

[issywizz]

Helen,which vid? the grey or the bay?
And Heather,Im coming to the conclusion that conformation has a lot to do with a lot of things 

[shoveltrash]

both inspiring videos - thank you for posting them
who is Georges Fizet????  LOVE his riding.

Goncalo Carvalho vid - definitely preferable to the "Grand Prix" competitive stuff seen nowadays , but i noticed that there was a *feel* of a backwards attitude with his hands & the contact?  sometimes in the rhythm of the gait?

i prefer the 2nd vid
interesting that the horse is shown in plain snaffle @ 1:32 -- altho most of the footage is in the double, with the reins held  Fillis style (am i correct?).  must be a French thing?  i know that is PK's preference.

trying to get "back into the swing of things" here on the forum.......
how nice to get to see inspiring videos

[whisper's mum]

Helen,which vid? the grey or the bay?

The grey.  I've dug a Paul Belasik book out this morning and he writes about triangulated piaffe in there. He thinks it is mainly caused by over zealous trainers pusshing the horse too hard and getting the hing legs so far under that the front legs have to also come back. The cure is to uncramp the back legs and get them out behind again. The legs shouldn't deviate too much from their natural position, or as Heather says, it becomes the goat on a mountain (an exercise in it's own right but done in halt!). Have you got Paul Belasik's books, Sarah? I was hugely disappointed when I saw him give a short demo but his writing is lovely.