"heels Down!" Argh! Help!

[Casey76]

Whilst I was riding at my RS I've had very few comments on the positioning of my heels, which now rest quite naturally and easily about 1in below my toes.

My new instructor, is a lot more "BHS" and is always telling me to push the weight into my heels... now the problems I'm having are I can't seem to push the weight into my heels without bracing against the stirrups, and of course when that happens I'm pushing myself out of the saddle, which has the opposite effect of the nice secure seat I'm aiming for.

So, when P says "heels down" I often resort to "toes up", and this causes me to lose my stirrups far more often than when I started with my heel just a little below my toe.

Just for interest... P did remark that she was amazed that I didn't lose my stirrups more (with the 'old' heel position).

So... any hints, tips, exercises to help me get my heels down without bracing against the stirrups?

Any help appreciated, thanks

[Emma_R]

If you go to this thread http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/membe...?showtopic=3767 Heather says "dont worry about trying to shove your heel down so much, it doesnt need to be more than half an inch lower than your toe for flatwork." Maybe trying to push your heel down more feels uncomfortable because your heel is low enough anyway. I'd stop worrying about getting your heels lower and look for a different instructor if you can!  

[Jaydee]

Change your instructor. You pay the piper, you call the tune.

[Heather]

Amen, Jaydee,

Heather

[baggywrinkle]

Well the more I worried about it, the worse I got! As an adult learner, (35yrs ago now...eek!), I took these stock phrases at face value, not understanding the jargon, and too shy to ask.
'heels down! weight in the stirrups!!' ....err...does she mean stand in the stirrups?
'open the hands!'....what??? let go!?!
I'm sure there's more!

[Funky MeerKAT]

For dressage I tend to think about just resting my foot in the stirrup, there is really no need for a lot of weight in the heel, the foot just rests in the stirrup with the toe slightly up and the heel slightly down, just as it would if the stirrup weren't there.

But for jumping you do need a lot of weight in the heel, that is what makes you more secure, the heel comes forward and down, but you can't sit properly with your bum in the saddle like that. When I have all my weight in my heels my bum is out of the saddle, or just resting in the saddle. Hard to explain really, in dressage the weight is more evenly spread down the whole leg.

[Pondrider]

Perhaps your new instructor is recently qualified/new to teaching, as she still seems to be quoting the 'traditional' chestnuts that student instructors learn initially?

 :lol: You could ask her to demonstrate to you the mounted "heels down" position she has requested you use when you have your next lesson, so that she can identify to you the individual muscle groups involved in pushing the "heels down" position, and how they are relevent to the rider's balance, stability, and 'feel' .

No instructor worth their breeches should have any problems with answering student enquiries such as this, (and may learn something themselves!)  

The BHS system may often get the flack for instructor comments such as the ones given here, but there are good and bad examples of instructors in many sports, and some of us BHS bunnies have always thought "outside the box" - except on BHS exam days, obviously!  


Honestly, though,  do get your instructor on board and ask her to demonstrate sitting trot whilst pushing her heels down - and watch what happens to her back and seat.

As others have already pointed out, if you as the paying customer aren't happy with their teaching explanations, vote with your feet and try elsewhere - it's easy to learn to ride badly in good faith, but damn difficult to correct the results of bad teaching later.

Good luck.

 

[jvt]

Haha Pondrider!

I too get great pleasure in thinking outside the BHS box... infact I'm very rarely in it these days!

I had a real eye opener the other day, I was teaching a very loyal client in her manege, there was another lesson going on the other end with a middle aged proper BHS style creation... she shouted at this 12 yr old for an hour, and it consisted of "OUTSIDE REIN.... no.... INSIDE REIN.... no.... KICK... KEEP KICKING.... WILL YOU GET THAT PONY ON THE BIT..... NOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT... "   :blink: etc etc.

The poor child looked completely away with the fairies, and I can't say I blame her... we spent most of our lesson with our jaws on the floor....  She spent the whole time contradicting herself... how was the girl going to learn anything?

Casey - by pushing your weight down into your heels as much as that you will probably slide your leg forward and that will affect your balance....  I'd do as the others suggest and ask politely whether your heel really needs to be down so far if you are balancing well as it is.  If she is adamant then I would seriously think of changing instructor... if she gives you a valid reason and it makes sense to you than maybe she is working for your best interests!

I do say more weight in leg from time to time if a client is struggling with something specific, but make it quite clear that I mean more weight on the ball of foot ie stirrup, not in heel, for that very reason.

[Casey76]

Thanks for all the input everyone

I'm now a few more lessons on, and my instructor and I are starting to understand one another better now

There was a lot of miscommunication going on at first, and I'm having to make a lot of adaptions as I've spent the last 2.5 years being taught Dressage with a very strong German/Swiss basis, and now I'm going back to more generalised "British" instruction (and I'm still having problems remembering to change my diagonal at x rather than at the corner :P)

I've now learned that the "heels down" was really short for "make your whole leg longer and stretch down the back of your calf" - which *is* something I get told in my RS quite often :blush:

I've always been very tight in my legs, and to this day I can't sit on the floor with me legs straight out in front of me and my toes up without my knees being bent, so to aid me in stretching down my calf I bought some Sprenger style stirrups... though what I really need is a new saddle so I'm not fighting for my position all the time :unsure:

The other thing we've agreed to is I'm allowed to be a bit "penguin toed" till I get me feet sorted out as I'd developed a habit of having all the weight on the outside of my foot (and none at all on the inside) in an attempt to get my toes to point forward, when in reality (due to poor hip conformation :unsure: ) I'll probably never ride with my toes pointing straight forward.

Anyway, lessons are ongoing, and I'm slowly getting more confident - though I do wish I had a proper manege to school in rather than a flatish bit of field.

[Flashback]

glad you and your instructor are understanding each other better!  :lol:  i could never understand those pupils who would never ask *why*!  i always encourage a two-way flow with my students - there is nothing worse than teaching for an hour and the student not saying a word    

change my diagonal at x rather than at the corner

i can never see why it is necessary to change diagonal at *X* - i was always told that with a young horse you run a terrible risk of unbalancing them when you change at x rather than within 2 strides of turning a corner.  i never teach *change at x* for that reason!

please ......... anyone with a strong reason as to why *change at x* can you enlighten me?  :blush:  

[Funky MeerKAT]

I've always been very tight in my legs, and to this day I can't sit on the floor with me legs straight out in front of me and my toes up without my knees being bent,

If this is the case then some flexibility exercises off the horse could do wonders for you, there were some really good rider training exercises in the Australian Horse Magazine rescently.

[Jaydee]

Re. changing diagonals - the French ride on the opposite diagonal anyway no doubt have equally good reasons.

When I started, we used to sit trot the corners.

Maybe none of it matters at all .

[Funky MeerKAT]

The French ride on the inside diagonal? Thats very interesting, do you know why? I would love to know the reasoning behind that, and what differences it is meant to make.

[Casey76]

RE: changing diagonal at x or in the corner...

After so long of changing diagonal in the corner I can unbalance myself changing at x :P

But at all the riding schools I've visited in the UK the reply was that to change in a corner unbalanced the horse (possibly by weighting the inside foreleg???).  Of course I've never changed *exactly* on a corner, but like Flashback said, within a stride or two.

The only time I do change at x is when I change out of a circle, then I usually get myself into a pickle as I have so many things to remember (half halt, balance, change the bend, change the whip change the diagonal )

Going back to changing at x... what happens when you are asking for a lengthened stride (which i still do when rising)... that would flummox the whole thing changing at x - but perhaps that's just me and being used to riding an RS horse who needs a lot of *encouragement* to keep going :unsure: