Why does Monty Roberts think single line lunging is bad horsmanship?

[margarita]

I actually like a good debate but was always bought up to show bit respect for the older generation thats all   

[issywizz]

IW....now you are acting like a *10 year old*  

Its fun though.  

Seriously,the reason I say its daft is because its a sweeping generalisation based on lack of experience of good lungeing technique.
Imo somebody in Montys position should be careful of making such statements.
I absolutely agree 100% that bad lungeing is detrimental but so is bad round pen technique and many many other things.
What worries me is when people look to somebody like Monty as if they know *all* the answers about every aspect of horsemanship and Monty responds as if he does even on subjects that he clearly isnt well versed in.
Monty is an expert at a small area of horsemanship-personally I dont even like what he does but its better than what some others do-but hes *not* an expert at gymnastically working a horse in the classical way.
Lets not forget his close associations with Anky .............

[Cloud_cirrus]

I agree Issywizz, I would much prefer someone say 'hey, I don't have all the answers but this is what I think and this is why I think it' and also be open minded to learn more.  Rather than be dogmatic, make an opinion on something (at least 10 years ago by my reckoning) and never acknowledge there can be other ways.

What worried me about this stance was when someone I know to be a genuine horse lover, who would always do her best by her horse, called a vet out because he was lame, then refused to lunge him on a circle for the vet because it was cruel.  This then sparked quite an interesting debate between vet and owner on how exactly the lameness exam was going to continue.

Now I am sure that Monty would not tell his students to deprive their horse of a thorough vet exam  but that was how this person had understood the message.

[fizz]

Having caused this reaction I seriously hope that I have remembered what Jill said correctly    it was definately on those lines.

Personally I think as owners it is our responsibilty to not follow anybody blindly but to listen and make our own decisions what is correct for our animal and our situation whether that be a trainer, vet, whatever.  Sadly though there are those that follow almost with cult like mentality.

IW totally showing my ignorance here but what is MR's connection with Anky ? 

[margarita]

Totally agree with you fizz.............. cult like activity can pop up anywhere   Seriously though everyone is intitled to their opinion however I refrain from standing on a soap box   Maybe we should move this topic onto the jeremy kyle show.......
Being open minded and take in what you think is right for you and your horse works for me .

[happy-horses]

Maybe we should move this topic onto the jeremy kyle show.......

Lol why? does he need a paternity test 

[winnieandben]

Lol why? does he need a paternity test 

 

[margarita]

  Na ......... but they got bouncers on the show and its for debating  Mind you 

[Mandeigh]

And Jezza is a bit of a babe 

[margarita]

   that so daft     I hear there is a cult following for him  Wonder if Monty watches it   

[ChrissieW]

Lets not forget his close associations with Anky .............

Do tell, I've never heard this and am interested to know more......

Seriously,the reason I say its daft is because its a sweeping generalisation based on lack of experience of good lungeing technique.
Imo somebody in Montys position should be careful of making such statements.

Absolutely.

[Heather]

Well having met Monty, and become friendly with Kelly over the last few years, I can truly say that although I dont agree with everything he does, I use a lot of the IH groundwork methods myself with horses, and find that they work extremely well, but without the zombifying that Parelli stuff seems to engender.

I have found Monty very approachable, and actually, far from arrogant, outside of the arena, where he is a showman, no doubt, but a very entertaining and watchable one at that. Vicky and I were at the Hand last Friday evening for the demo, and I will write up about that tomorrow, as I am just back from the clinic at Sarahs and 8 hrs teaching and 200 miles drive home, so am a bit knackered.

Kelly's new horse, Harvey, which I went to the demo as much to watch as anything else, was about to have a bullet only a month ago. A £20,000 show horse, so traumatised by the treatment at the show yard where he had been 'trained', that he would attack people in the stable and rear vertically if anyone tried to ride him. He is all of 6 years old. Seeing him with Rosie Jones on Friday evening, Kelly's assistant, and rider for Monty this tour, and also, Rosie has done two of our own EETT modules, it was testament to the IH methods, and Rosie's riding skills.

As I said, Monty is a cowboy and doesnt understand how we dressage riders use the lunge to develop the paces. I didnt get a chance to discuss it with him on Friday as it was pretty manic beforehand, but I will ask Kelly more about it.

Heather

[renta]

I think ROUND PEN training is mostly a good method for horses, who have grown in herds without much human interference in their early life. I have never needed it - but used its body language in IH and ground training. Human touch and good manners  are necessary to worming, hoof care, vet checking et cetera....many stabled horse life routines.
Too much joining has been the problem

[renta]

  As a matter fact  I was going to say, that MR doesn´t appreciate  piaffe either .

[margarita]

Round pen training is also good for the husband.........when you need their attention