Leg Yield ... does it have a place in training?

[TashaKat]

I know that there are different schools of thought on this and I can see the good and bad points in all of their arguements 

So ... what, in your opinion, are the pros and cons of teaching LY both with regards to the horse and the rider.


Another grey area seems to be the aids!  Some say that you should use the inside leg just behind the girth, others that this is incorrect and, as the horse is looking away from the direction of movement, you should have you inside leg at the girth.  Again, your thoughts please

[catkin]

IMHO leg yielding does have a place in training - every young horse should be taught how to when they are ridden away, for safety's sake if nothing else (moving over on the road out hacking etc). It may not have the gymnastic abilities of the 'classical' lateral movements but it teaches the horse that it's possible to go sideways under a rider (or on long-reins or in-hand)

[Diane Smith]

I'd say it's essential, for safety if for no other reason than that 

[ukica]

definitely useful in training youngsters to teach responsiveness to leg signals and for the rider also.

[catkin]

Missed the second bit - the aids

Rider's leg behind, not on girth - it's a 'move-over' aid not a bend/flexion one.

[TashaKat]

I agree, we were first taught LY for the riding & road safety test many (many) moons ago. I'm sure that it's Heather who escaped serious injury or worse by having a horse who LY out of the path of an oncoming school bus.

I've always believed that it was a basic introduction for the horse to move sideways from the leg too

Aid wise I've mostly been taught the inside leg back aid which has always worked well enough although the otherway did too but then that's probably how the horse was trained. What has worked even better for us is using the leg slighty back aid with a 'stacked' inside hand, just raising the inside hand slighty made a big difference

 

[Diane Smith]

Why would anyone think that it shouldn't be taught?

[jenb]

Of course it has a place.  My trainers use LY in their lessons, they are ex-Cadre Noir, one of the classical schools, so the argument about is it classical or not is a bit silly IMHO.  It is useful?  Yes.  So use it!  Who cares if someone says it's classical or not...   

Re the aids, we train our horses to know that pressure from one leg means haunches over on that side, and that an indirect rein aid means move the forehand away from the pressure.  So we use inside leg plus inside rein.  Means you can tinker quite easily if the horse is not moving forehand or quarters over sufficiently - you can isolate the command to that part of the body, rather than increasing pressure just from the leg.

Re positioning of the leg - inside leg on the girth, same as in shoulder in.  The leg acts in time with the swing of the belly which is the cue to say "pick up and place over" to the inside hind.  The pressure is on for a fraction longer than the quick nudge to say "go forwards and straight" (which should come from both legs acting together, anyway).

This is of course only how I have been taught, there are many different ways to do this!  It works for me anyway, Gazdag is doing pretty nice leg yield at only five years old and with less than one years training under saddle. 

[issywizz]

Yes its useful for teaching the horse to move off the leg but it *does* have gymnastic usefulness too-suppleness!
Its a very useful aid for suppling the horse laterally.
Its also useful as a prelude to travers/renvers as you can get the angle in LY and then switch the bend,this is very useful in horses such as B who lack flexibility laterally due to being short and compact.
What it doesnt do is increase loading of the hind leg the way that travers does,its not supposed to increase engagement either but if you ever do a canter immediately out of LY I think you will find the hind legs are better there for the transition.  
Aiding wise I was taught by Erik the inside leg at the girth-inside leg and outside rein ie; diagonal aiding,however it is sometimes necessary to bring the inside leg back too.
In summary I would say that if your horse is pretty flexible laterally and moves off the leg well then its something that you wont need much-my little Maytree is like an eel and Ive never bothered with it on him,although I do get new riders to do it on him as it teaches *them* how to control his wrigglyness.
But on shorter more compact types who are laterally stiff it is practically unliveable without!  

[epona]

YES YES YES!! And I agree with IW that it **IS** gymnasticising    Esp when done on a circle (giravolta) and against the wall.  I also think its a great way for both horse and rider to really understand and confirm the inside leg to outside hand technique and therefore it is also a good way to encourage a little inside flexion without the overuse of the inside rein 

I find leg yield invaluable and couldnt live without it!! 

[cirocco]

Yes I totally agree with training the horse to respond to the leg aid to move sideways. Its saved me and my horses countless times when out hacking.

[Heather]

Some classical trainers disagree and say it shouldnt be taught. But why not? It is the easiest sideways movement for a horse and to me a useful precursor to the more advanced lateral exercises. I simply cannot see the problem with it, and yes Lynne, were it not for the fact that my horse leg yielded instantly to my aid, I would most surely not be here to be writing this!

Heather

[VR]

AND ... if Heather were not here to be writing this now then she would also not have been here to teach pony and I to leg yield over the last few weeks!! 

As someone who is learning this (correctly!) now, I personally think that it is invaluable and also that learning this has helped us with many other elements of our ridden work too. I.e. pony is learning to listen more and distinguish different aids as opposed to his normal legs-mean-whoosh-off-we-go response  Being able to leg yield is also helping us to be more acurate in our turns etc as we can leg yield the last step or two back on to the track in order to (most of the time!) arrive at the marker rather than drifting past it ...  'Tis also encouraging said pony to stretch and bend more, I think anyway, because he is using his body more and having to think a bit more about where he is putting his fluffy feet! (... yes, I did say fluffy feet- er, lets just say he's not your usual looking dressage pony      )

[Heather]

He is a great little chap, though, Tori- for anyone who hasnt seen Bobby, he wears Yeti boots, disguised as feathers, so luxuriant that Tori is thinking of having to take them off, as he is starting to tread on his own feathers in lateral work!! Seems a shame, but we cant have him tripping over his own hairy legs!!

Heather

[VR]

Hmmm, going slightly off topic but ... I brought him in from the field today to trim them off but couldn't actually bring myself to do it!! I've decided he's just going to have to learn to cross with a little more care in lateral work and learn not to step on his own fur  The feathers are escaping the clippers/scissors for one month but if it's still happening then, then ... I'm afraid off they will have to come!