pros and cons of treeless saddles

[acb.antonia]

I am interested in buying a fhoenix but a couple of people have mentioned that treeless aren't necessarily great for every horse.  Is there any question that treeless are uncomfortable for the horse?

If I buy off ebay, I won't be able to check the fit of the saddle until it arrives and so would like to be aware of any potential difficulties in advance, especially since I will have to sell my saddle to fund the new one and so could end up saddleless.

Any advice (positive and potential drawbacks) would be appreciated!

[Peaches]

I would really recommend contacting your nearest agent and asking for them to come out with a saddle for you to at least have one ride in whilst they're there, and perhaps pay for a weeks trial if you want to be more sure. That way you can see what you, and your horse, feel about the saddle you are thinking of. Or perhaps asking on here if there is anybody who owns a saddle near you, who might be willing to bring it over for a play?

I say this because while lots of people have no problems right from the start, occasionally a rider just can't get used to the saddle (be it because it's treeless, the stirrup bar position etc), and I have also heard of a small minority of horses that haven't got on with any treeless - and some for which some treeless types are better suited than others. If you have had a ride before hand, you can buy your saddle with a bit more confidence

I've personally had no problems with the fhoenix, even on my oversenstive lump of a horse, once I got the hang of shimming it (only necessary because he's wonky, and had some wastage)  

[ml]

I would reccommend trying one first, I have just bought a Vogue one of my horses goes really well in it the other one doesn't!

The best thing is to trial one and if possible get someone to fit it for you.

[Natural Dressage]

Just a note, that we do not call the Fhoenix "treeless" as it has just as intricate an internal structure as a traditional treed saddle, the structure is simply not hard, but rather possesses a mouldable quality.  A treeless saddle is typically more of a beefed up pad, without an internal structure, but possessing, if anything, outer, added on tree parts.  To me it is much like the difference between vertebrates and invertebrates.  One has its structure and skeleton on the inside, one wears it on the outside.  Since the Fhoenix has an internal structure I don't believe the benefits and drawbacks that apply to a true treeless would apply the same to the Fhoenix.

Also keep in mind that one treeless saddle is as different from another as one treed saddle differs from another, and in fact since, by nature, many treeless saddles have cutting edge designs all there own, they are even more dissimilar from brand to brand than most treed saddles.  This makes is pretty impossible to generalize - probably it is best to look at each particular brand or make, on its own.

[Natural Dressage]

Not to say this is not a good question, just perhaps that it will be most informative if we are a bit more specific, about which saddle characteristics we describe, and perhaps better yet, which specific brand or make.

Fhoenix for instance:  flexibility allows it to bend and move with the horses back more than a rigid tree, giving the horse more freedom and therefore more comfort.
It can also flex to accomodate some asymetries, such as a larger shoulder, without pinching, and often without shimming.  It will not restrict shoulder movement or pinch there.
Much easier to fit to wider horses.
Softer for the rider.
May not hide major rider asymmetries as much as a rigid tree, but also allows for more specific intentional bilateral aids.
Also will allow rider to feel more of the horses true movement, not a rigid block between horse and rider.  With this rider may feel more movement, can be adjusted somewhat by type of panels used.
Fheonix is similar in its support for the rider to a traditional tree saddle, which is not true of many true treeless models.
Fhoenix also has benefit of panels options that can be easily interchanged and adjusted by the average horseperson, without going back to the saddler for restuffing etc.

Maybe some other posters can list some benefits and drawbacks of other models they are familiar with, you can probably see by reading above how each will be unique...

HTH,

ND

[ros]

And can I just add that since Merly has lost a lot of weight I'm REALLY appreciating my Fhoenix! It fits him just as well now as it did before, and it's such a relief. 

[acb.antonia]

I will definitely get a fitter out to try one.  I'm particularly interested in the fhoenix because I can trust that it won't make it difficult to sit properly and I have a young horse who I'm hoping will be able to share it.

Now I just need to find a fitter who might have some 2nd hand ones......

[Peaches]

I will definitely get a fitter out to try one.  I'm particularly interested in the fhoenix because I can trust that it won't make it difficult to sit properly and I have a young horse who I'm hoping will be able to share it.

Now I just need to find a fitter who might have some 2nd hand ones......

You'll be able to trial one from a fitter and buy elsewhere second hand (and unlike a tree'd saddle where the flocking and tree can have been altered, the fhoenix you buy second hand will be the same as the one you trialled unless you choose a different model) if the fitter has none secondhand themselves...