Chopin turns 3! time to start working... or not! lol

[ukica]

I think in the circumstances i would do a lot of leading exercises with him, using a chain lead with him if he has not much respect for personal space, and with these leading exercises, you can gradually increase your distance from him and make him learn to keep his distance from you and become independent.

Without a smaller confined space, i believe that you will have difficulties with free work and should concentrate on lead and lunging exercises.  In a smaller space you could bend your knees and lower your body and take small stomps towards his hind quarters, backed up by having whip in hand,  and i think this would stop him coming inwards and to stop, small stomps at an angle in front of his shoulder. My Croatian/Austrian trainer is fantastic with in hand work and she has worked with Klaus too, she taught me some body language stuff which helped me alot with lunging, although i probably haven't explained very well.  

Most horses learn to respect the lead and chain over the nose. This sounds cruel but the signals are very light indeed and definitely get the horse listening and respecting you.  I can try and send you some info by e mail if you are interested.  You can also look on youtube for some of the tellington work and i could scan you some info too from her book.  I think maybe this before the free work would be better for you.

Here is how the chain works if you are interested:

http://www.ttouch.com/PDFs/WandLeads.pdf

Good luck with everything and whereabouts are you?

[Lippa]

Oh,this will be interesting. I know nothing about Klaus expect that he has lovely mustache,but will be very keen on seeing how you will work with your horse.

For me it looks too excitable. I dont know how it is supposed to look like. I have seen only couple of people practising "the art of Klaus" earlier.. Both of them were getting the horse too look really excited (or dont now an actual English word for that) and that you seem to do also. Is that the idea? For my eyes he is coming towards you with his shoulders a lot and the push he does in spanish walk play is in my horsey life  completely no-no.
(My stallions would get reeeaaally crazy from this fast and stressed looking movements anyway....)

Dont take this as a critique,cause I know nothing about this kind of work.
Have been actually waiting IW to post some videos to ridicule her...

Thank you very very much about your post and videos! I hope to see more.It is very interesting!!!! 

Gorgeous horse.

[Belbe]

hahaha! no no no issy! keep'em coming! all constructive crytics are welcome! It's great to have some feedback! the only other person at the yard is my cousin wich is learning from me. She gives some suggestions regarding other horses but never Chopin. She loves him and the way he's so proud but never gets near him cos he respects her about as much as a rock.

If you're up to it, i'll keep adding food for thought so u have more info in wich to comment.

Same to you Lippa! please ask or comment on anything! actually it's not Klaus that excites the horse, it's just that those are the customers he gets: the crazy wild horses noone else will take! my colt seems to be such a fellow, just my luck... but i don complain. he'll follow me everywhere, won't try to drag me ever, will lead to and from the mares or other stallions without much complaint, will hack in-hand fine. I just haven't found a way to make him move in a soft, relaxed manner. He feels the need to prove he's a stallion all the time.

actually no, I'm not an exitable person at all, if i stand still for more than 5 minutes I fall asleep. But whenever there's an excuse I love to move! I encourage horses to do so and I particularly enjoy enciting them to show off. This seems counterproductive if what you whant is a relaxed horse but after some time it actually works. (please watch Topic on Tess's progress, I've been working her for a year now, though only on sundays)

If you notice on the second video, he's all excited and violent about the spanish walk and I see we're gettin nowhere. Eventually I tell him to stop, ask what's the matter and decide to take a step back and ask for a Jambette only. He does it much more calmy. So I think that's what I gotta do. he knows a lot of commands but he never did any actual work, I only taught him the cues. so he has no balance, no coordination, no nothing. I'm gessing that's wa makes him ruch so much so now that's we're actually starting work, i'll step back every time he rushes to something he can do more easily. The problem with this however is that, oposite to my mare, this horse is utterly deprived of patience. He has none! nil! He flips out every time you try to repeat something he already knows but also flips out if he doesn't understand the new exercice right at the first try.
he's the most inteligent non-human I know. We're talking about a baby who learnt to open the box bolt in 5 minutes, the knot with wich I tied him the first tim in the lil time it took me to go fetch a hoof rasp from the tack room. He unscrewed all the screws from his drink bowl and his feed cup, learnt that the trick to disable the elctric fence was on that grey box somewhere. He sets the horses locked in the arena loose if I let him wander loose outside, he learnt how to escape his brother's paddock on the first week while they had been there for 3 years and never knew how, etc etc etc. everytime I come up with a new way to make him do something he doesn't whant to, he discovers a way arount it on the second try... This is the horse I have to work with...

Once, when he kicked me, I got him behaving like the perfect horse for the 3 following days. I swear I didn't hit him or was mean to him in any way. i was just out of my mind in fury and contained it all without uttering so much as a word. He looked at me with such fright in his eyes that day that I'm still taken aback from it. The following days he was as flawless as a robot. But i don't whant a robot, I whant a proud lively boy! I don't need my horses for any purpose other than the happy mood effect they have on me. If I can get him to move better, great! but if not, who cares! Any method that takes away his usual good mood will take away mine as well and then the purpose for keeping him disapears...

[shoveltrash]

finally watched the vids!  firstoff, Chopin is utterly devine swoooon!!!!!

the biggest impression i was left with is that 1) you are doing WAY too much 'backing up' out of his space.  he should yield to you, not the other way around imho.
2) the excitement & brio is actually refreshing to me - however he looks like he would benefit from a more relaxed posture to help build the correct muscles in a safe way (tension is detrimental to this, again IMHO).

apologies to critiquing, and also if i've repeated what others have said.  i have not read all the replies, sorry!

[Belbe]

ukika, thanks for the help!  
I can't use a halter much now cos my broken arm is still very weak. But before I broke it I could give the aids with a simple halter fine. however, hurting him doesn't work. Believe me, 3 years have taught me a lot. When I can't get him to behave by simple methods I carry a water spray bottle and spray his nose whenever he crosses a line. works fine, and it's one of the very few ways I can scold him that actually works. any kind of phisical pressure or pain will make him rebel and he's pretty dangerous when he feels threatened. I'm not Klaus, i don't do this for a living and I can't risk getting hurt so I'm gonna discuss this with my coach next week during her visit and see what she proposes.

As for the being in my space, it needs more work but he'll lunge ok on a line. he falls in due to lack of balance but if i tell him to move out he'll go. I'll try and make a video of him at it this sunday if the weather allows. He was all apologetical after this video so I'm hoping he'll still remmember how naughty he was and behave ok this time. He's so much like a lil boy that it's scary! who said we humaize horses? they humanize themselves!  
I've been avoiding inhand work cos my arm won't take any of thos fast head movements he makes to complain. Doc say's i'll be ok by March so i'll start at it after my final X-Ray and come here scream for help!

[Belbe]

haha! it's akay! shoveltrash! he does need to learn manners!! The weather was freezing that day and i cut him too much slack (he's always a walking bomb when the weather's cold). As for the backing away i was actually asking him to come closer and look at me (watch my hand). I did manage to get him closer and slower but not much luck on the looking at me... he eventually did go straight instead of completely turned to the outside so I called it a day and praised. hope he understood. I'll repeat it a couple more times to see if he gets it. otherwise i'll have to use a more direct means of turning his neck to the inside.  

and thanks! he is preety ain't he? well, it couldn't be all bad! all that stubborness had to have a positive side  

Here's us last summer on a warm day (obviously, lol). I whanted him to play fetch but he likes his ball best apparently. So we played chase and turn  instead... basic but fun.

Chopin - fooling around 2

[ukica]

i didnt realise about your arm Belbe!   

Where are you based?

[Lippa]

  This will be interesting to follow,cause I dont loose school.Thanks.
Gotta check your other thread also then. There are so many things I miss on this forum...

 I understood you are from Portugal?

[Belbe]

erm, well, technically yes, the Azorean islands are portuguese territory. Though the languange and the habbit of eating and drinking a lot is about as much as we have in common! LOL! well, not only that, but it is a total different reality here.

but don get me wrong, I use a lunge line like everyone else sometimes. especially when the horse isn't able to keep on fairly decent egg (i'm not even asking for a circle  ). I do preffer however to do most of the circles and lateral work while riding. I'm very clumsy with long reins (wich are the only way to force a correct bend without guizmos) and the lunge doesn't seem to add much to what I whant. Plus, having the horse free makes it easier for me to know if I'm behaving properly. I always know if the horse is enjoyng the work or f i'm pushing too much or too little cos he's free to either make fun of me or simply run away.  

[issywizz]

Just watched your other vids.
Ok,I have decided you are completely bonkers,possibly even more bonkers than Lippa and I have no idea what you are doing,I mean * running *???? this is what the horse is supposed to do? 
Im kidding, ( sort of  ) but your horses seem ok and you seem to be having fun and I guess anything is better than wasting time in the gym so carry on. 
Are you sure that it is a good idea to play with a colt like this though? I wouldnt do it myself as I feel it blurs the boundaries-a minute or so at a time yes,but for me Chopin gets too mouthy and testing  in the work?

[ukica]

IW: you took the words out of my mouth  Totally bonkers!!

I think some discipline is definitely in order with this young man though, although, its a bit difficult currently with the arm problem Belbe has. 

Have you got a horsey friend who can help maybe Belbe??

Also, slightly off topic now, my young boy is getting extremely mouthy lately, he wants to eat me! He is very nibbly. He has been inside alot the last few weeks due to the awful weather and dangerous mud, so that is partly to blame.  Any tips to stop this mouthiness?  He is 2 and 8 months and getting big!!  He is already 1m67....what is that in hands?  Must get some new photos and stop hogging this bolg!! 

[shoveltrash]

IMHO, with a young stallion, i would NEVER back away out of their space.  that's just my opinion though .
in "horse language" (which is very simple), this translates to HIM being stronger than you.  which carries forward into a youngster not respecting the handler.
in the natural environment, a horse who yields their space to another is definitely telling the other horse that he/she is dominant.  i don't believe in 'abuse' or forcefulness, but a clear delineation of boundaries is important.  i do like the *play* component in your work, and think that it is important to let a horse express themselves.  and you are right, with free schooling the horse is better able to express themselves - i myself LOVE free schooling, but prefer to mix it with controlled training as well. personally i would also start 'proper' lungeing, if only at the walk, to start working very accurate figures .

the Azorean islands

i wondered where you were!!!! 
(off to Google..........to figure out exactly where this is )

[ukica]

agree with ST.  Also don't agree with force or abuse but discipline, YES.  

Belbe, you may find this website useful, i think it is very interesting:


http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/training.shtml


Look at ground manners and there is a checklist that you need to see before your horse is ready to be sat on.

[Lippa]

Ha haa! Wellcome to the "bonkers club"! Now we can attack IW together...

Allthough,I agree with her that I dont understand what you are doing. (But the times I have seen someone play Klaus,it has looked the same to me.One got into hospital after playing with a young PRE colt.) I also agree with the others about the boundaries with young colts. With mine I would never back off or play like this,cause they would be out of order in a second.

But I am very interested to see more what an other "nutcase" will do.

Get out of the circles and be my parter of crime.

[ukica]

  lippa, i also feel secure in the circles and the LTW (look this way stuff from ShovelTrash and Erik!).  My boy would be dangerous if he wasn't kept in order.  But i have also been criticised for being too cautious, and slow in my approach....but i think better safe than sorry.