History lesson please on the EE saddles!

[Gixer]

Cos I'm lost I see so many saddles on fleabay with Heathers name attributed to them I'm starting to get confused whats which!

so if anyone could put a simple history of treeless EE saddles I'd be most appreciative!!

Thanks

[samboc77]

Well correct me if I'm wrong   but Heather bought out the SBS Flexion first on the Softtree (treeless) front. This didn't have interchangable panels just flat panels, a low pommel and wide twist.

Due to the Ansur case Heather went back to the drawing board and designed the Fhoenix (Rising out of the ashes of the Flexion hence the "F" in Fhoenix) It was a new core to that of the SBS Flexion and also had a slighly narrow twist in comparision.

There have been a few design of Fhoenix, the normal panels and suberpanel options to start with... this first version had a lower cantle and didn't have as much wither clearance as the current one. Also the girthing system was not the "Y" system we now use and the Stirrup bars where a silver flat design not the brass version that we have today.

There has been improvemnts along the way with the introduction of the Y girthing system and new brass looking stirrup bars to the old style Fhoenix.

Then there was a redesign of the Fhoenix and the introduction of the Vogue.

The new Standard Fhoenix has a higher pommel due to the increase in wither clearance and the shape of the cantle was changed to make it look more like a traditional saddle shape. The twist is slightly narrower compared to the older style Fhoenix too.

Not sure I have covered anything so if I have missed bits out please fill in the gaps! lol!

The Vogue and new standard Fhoenix are made from the same core but the Vogue is sculpted to have a deeper seat and doesn't have the secondary flap that goes of over stirrup bars which aids to help make the twist narrower

[Gixer]

Thank you Sam think I'm clearer now!

[Peaches]

Wonder if it might be worth collating a picture diary of the different stages, on a thread like this (I'm sure between members here we would have all the stages?), and having it sticky'd? Or perhaps we could have a list of which numbers of saddles (eg 1-100 = the first fheonix, lower cantle and pommel, straight girthing, panels fixed, 101-200 higher pommel, they are obviously not real numbers  just explaining!!) were of which phase of development?

I'm not all that clue'd up on fhoenix saddles except my research into buying my own, but I've got countless PM's on a couple of forums asking for help about such and such a saddle on ebay and does it have the higher or lower pommel etc etc which sellers don't always know, and I get asked cos I have one... It would be helpful to have something to point people towards, or be able to reference to as it's something so many people on here and elsewhere get stuck on....?

Sorry, I know that's quite a lot to ask, and probably not realistic, but if you don't ask you never know! 

[kezimac]

i think thats a FANTSTIC idea.... well done
that would help loads people as you say alot of people struggle determining which saddle they have or are looking at.

[Gixer]

Peaches thats along the lines of what I'd secretly hoped for, but didn't want to ask for too much!
BTW this was spurred by an SBS GP thats currently on ebay lol

[Fiona]

This question has come up before and I asked Nurseys if it was a possibilty but unfortunately it's not possible to list the saddle numbers and features like that.

The first 500 or so were SBS saddles but after that the numbers are just sequential (so you can't tell for example which numbers are Fhoenixes and which are Vogues without looking up individual saddles).

Stirrup bars and girthing arrangements etc can be easily seen by looking at the saddle and if anyone ever needs to check the size or whatever of a particular saddle I can find this out for you 

Fiona

[Gixer]

would a kind of time line be possibe?

eg
SBS Flexion, standard girth positin blah blah
Fhoenix, Y girth position blah blah

just to show the key differences as the saddles have been developed?
Just to help those of us who can only dream of buying new at the moment??

[Peaches]

Ditto Gixer - and we could even add member's photo's if they were up for it, to be posted with corrosponding models...?

[Claire]

BTW this was spurred by an SBS GP thats currently on ebay lol

i'd be inclined, with any ebay purchase, to ask the vendor for its number so it can be checked against e.g. the number of lynne's missing one.  most ebay vendors are perfectly fine, and i have no doubt the current vendor is, but with the number one can check...

[tessa]

i think you may have forgotten to mention the (hope i get it right)

harbourne (Barry Swain)
hm easisit saddle (saddle company)

Flexion Supreme (made together with HM and Barry and now the Mondial- but i wouldn't talk about it too much)
although i am still using mine i think i may have to bring it with me in december and drop in for you to have a look at heather if you don't mind as have a few concerns??? and am wondering if needs a bit of fixing?

[Larri DB]

There was also the original HM thorowgood saddle way back in the day - I had a GP one and absolutely LOVED it, so did Safi, but she rapidly outgrew it widthwise....come to think of it I've had loads of Heather's saddles - the TG, then an Easisit, an SBS, , I borrowed a HM  / Barry Swain dressage one for ages from a friend, and then two Fhoenix's....happy with them, had a go on a Vogue and didn't get on with it at all, much preferred the standard (older model) one 

[whisper's mum]

I've had; 1. a HM Thorowgood 2.a Supreme (not the same as the Mondial - the Supreme is far better  ) 3. a 16" original Fhoenix when they first came out, 4. a 17" suberpanel Fhoenix when they first came out , 5. a dressage original Fhoenix, 6. a dressage 2nd generatation, y girthed, e-shaped stirrup bars Fhoenix, and currently have; 7. a GP original Fhoenix, 8. a GP Vogue, 9. a GP St.Merryn (the top end treed saddle designed by Heather and made by Barry Swain) and 10. a dressage St.Merryn  I think that's all of them ... phew!!!! 

[Heather]

Ok chronologicaly:

Champion Saddlery here in Devon made my first saddles

Then Ideal made the next lot for a couple of years.

Then I did a Thorowgood synthetic GP Maxam

Then Barrie Swain and the St Merryn saddle

Later a cheaper version with Barrie, the Harbourne

The Easisit part leather, part synthetic with Saddle Co.

The Flexion Supreme part treed saddle with Barrie Swain, but only 22 of these were ever made as Beta test models.

The Flexion SBS with Nurseys, fully treeless.

The Fhoenix as Fiona said, arose out of the ashes of the Flexion ( and to this day, Ansur have never informed me as to what I was alleged to have infringed)

Then the Fhoenix Vogue, and the Fhoenix Standard, both with higher pommel and cantle than the old model Fhoenix.

The Jeffries treed model is in development at the moment.

Heather

[Gixer]

Heather that is wonderfull thank you, just having the details of the stages you've been through means I can research any potential options I see although now I'm leaning towards Rio having some serious time off untill I can afford a new or nearly new Brown Fhoenix GP