*why* does he do this?

[NickeringNotions]

Sorry this is going to be a photo heavy post!  

Woody has a tendency to overbend, but it tends to be worse when other people ride him (he will either be a giraffe or tuck his nose into his chest). He can be quite nervous under saddle and is still quite green mentally - he is quite a worrier if something goes wrong and will occasionally throw a strop if he doesn't understand. I think he has been ridden harshly before (more than likely from an eventing background) and he is scared to get something wrong.

These photos are from the end of May (he has been out of real work for a while due to my exams and colic and now this heat - he just comes in sweating from the field!)

This is not me riding him but I have permission from the rider to post these pictures. He has bone spavins and a weakness through his pelvis due to a previous fracture but still has quite big strides and movement. They aren't the prettiest pictures to look at but I think they help to get my point across, and it will be interesting to see whether the overbending is coming from the rider, the horse or both. The rider here rides with hands differently to myself (these photos were taken as I wanted to see how the saddle was moving with him with me on the ground!)

*photos removed* 

He seems to have 'released' more here, so maybe the rider is checking him too strongly other times?

When he extends his overbending gets worse also...

Any opinions/observations? I know his anatomical weaknesses will not be helping him but he overbends worse with other people riding him (with me he will curl back a bit in stretching work but he is getting the idea of keeping his head vertical) which suggest a different style of riding is exaggerating it?

[tollertwins]

Mine does that, too.

Trainer sez hes 'hiding' from the bit. She has us ride him with elevated hands...or bump him up with them, depending on how hes going.

[issywizz]

I would think he is doing it to try and avoid engaging behind if he has physical issues.
The rider seems to be trying to get him to round by restricting the front end with the hands and asking him to step under-basically he is under too much pressure and its his way of trying to escape it imo.
Looking at the lack of muscle in his neck I would say that he hasnt worked properly for a very long time,if ever.
If he was my horse with the issues you describe I would be taking it very gently with him and doing some quiet hacking and not asking for engagement from behind-just be soft and allow him to relax and find whats comfortable-he certainly doesnt look comfortable in most of the pics. 

[NickeringNotions]

Thanks Yep I agree he does look rather miserable in these pictures. there is also another debate in the background regarding his working future so it is interesting to get other valuable opinions.

[DollysMum]

What's he like if lunged with a rider on (but without them holding reins)? I'd be inclined to take him out of the pelham and pop him into a simple snaffle, or perhaps even bitless, and do lots of work in walk over raised poles and see if it makes any difference.

[Cabruze]

Agree with Issywizz.  My old boy Captain has similar problems (well spavin anyway!!) and is only ridden now by my lightweight neice, on hacks, in walk with no contact at all (in a halter). 

I do in-hand suppling work to help him (mainly in walk and very short sessions) and lots of stretches, massage and accupressure. 

And I know how lucky I am to have OH's and friends horses to ride and my youngster Zeffy.  So hard to have problems with your lovely boy! 

[sueblue]

We have a similar problem with a cob mare on the yard that has come from a sanctuary,with one young rider who has a lovely seat, the mare is relaxed and works freely, with the other rider who is similar to the rider on this horse,  the mare overbends and does not go forward.
I believe that if the rider had  a more independent seat that the horse will be less overbent.
Obviously horses with spavins do find work more difficult, so would be interesting to see him with another rider.

[tollertwins]

oops...missed the spavins part....

agree that he may be too uncomfortable behind to round into the contact being offered.

[Appy2quarter]

Hi,

I have a horse with bilateral spavins and find that when she gets tired she puts her head down low and takes more weight infront.  I would guess that this posture of his is possibly the same thing, especially if you notice him taking shorter strides behind.

With her, we do inhand work and longreining as well as very short schooling sessions depending on how she feels.  On hacks I let her choose her own balance and gently ask her to lift her back - if she is comfortable, she then does this in a relatively lowish head carriage, if she isn't comfortable she pulls the reins and drops her head.  She averages 4 sessions a week of which 2 tend to be ridden and the others inhand/longreining.

Does he do this in longreins?  what about inhand?  What about with no contact at all?

Obviously all horses are different, but the need to overweight the front end is the way my girl tells me she is uncomfortable and we then take the rider out of the equation a bit until she feels better.