Giravolta

[Peaches]

Hi guys,

Trudi suggested on my bitting thread that Giravolta might be a good exercise to work on with Lance. She posted me a link to her doing it with one of her horses so I know how it should look, but wondering if people could direct me on how to actually ask him for it?

I'm not good with ground work. I do very basic lunging and double longing and long-lining but not so much 'in-hand' groundwork and not so much exercises in this manner cos I don't have the know-how really, so a dummies guide is best 

I'd like to give it a go though...

Also, Lance is worked in a snaffle or a dr cooks bitless (either for flat, bitless only for jumping when he's allowed), and is more relaxed in bitless usually but is settling into snaffle well - which should I try this groundwork in?

Thanks =]

[Trudi]

Sorry Peaches  I should have explained the *how*.

This is a quote from Paul Belasik who explains it with the written word much better than I could 

He talks of having started this exercise with a young unbacked horse after several weeks lunging work but it would work the same for a more established horse and I would use what you are happy lunging in or just a bridle (bitless or otherwise)........

**Approach the head and shoulders of the horse. Gathering up the lash of the lunge whip so that it is not flapping about, the trainer strokes the horse's sides, croup and haunches (note from Trudi, this will be good for getting your horse to be less nervous with the whip!!) until the horse stands quietly, comfortable with the touch. Then the trainer will tap, or push with the shaft of the whip (blunt end) , near the horse's barrel where the leg aids will be used (ie near the girth), at the haunches and at the hock to get the horse to take some sideways steps. One should be careful the horse doesn't rush in fear, stand still or (worse) push into the whip in defiance. One way or another the horse must learn to take measured, deliberate and fearless steps away from the pressure of the whip. The movement should circle around the trainer in a kind of turn on the forehand. The inside legs step forward and across the outside legs. The inside rein may have to be tightened to keep the bend to the inside.

He goes on to mention the importance of building this up on both reins a little at a time and how psychologically, it calms the horse (demanding submission) and teaches acceptance of the whip. I would also say that to begin with the inside rein is all important and will help you *swing* the quarters in the required direction but as you get better at it introduce the outside rein contact to keep the shoulders lighter and more mobile and THEN you will truly have the best benefit of the giravolta.

I hope you enjoy trying this Peaches 

ps both Paul Belasik (Dressage for the 21st Century) and Alfons Dietz (Training the horse in Hand) have lovely 'pics and other groundwork exercises in their books and may even be available online secondhand.
I also think Samboc had a good description in her other thread which you may not be able to read but I'm sure she would PM it to you or copy it here maybe 

[Peaches]

Thanks Trudi, you're a star! 

On the pushing with the whip - it mentions various areas - so am I almost laying the whip across the body or using the end in the different areas seperately? If the latter, is it simply whichever area the horse responds to best (presumably the most sensible area would be girth ish) or alternating to encourage the move? Sorry, you can see my lack of experience here 

The rest makes sense to me though 

When you say build it up gradually, is that to say that to start with, the first few session I just look for the correct movements in the desired direction, but just a few steps. The more I do it with him, I build up the number of steps/how far around the 'circle' we go so that in time we would get the full 'circle' or 'circuit' so to speak (ie 360 degrees)?

He was being very tense and unyielding to my hand (not pulling, but just that horrid wooden feel where there is no give or take no matter what you do when on a straight line) out hacking today so I got off on a bridleway in a field and did some inhand groundwork then and there - think he was somewhat surprised bless him  . I think I *kind of* started the Giravolta, or something similar anyway ( ) with him then, along with general yielding and bending/flexing exercise (although I had no stick so just had to make do with hands!). When he was paying attention and focused I hopped back on and continued the hack and he had relaxed loads and was much more focused and settled.

When you refer to a 'more established horse' - tbh he's not at all! Had I got an unspoint 3/4yr old 3 yrs ago, I suspect I'd have had a much easier time than taking Lance on as he had 6 yrs of work to UNDO first  . He's lovely but he really does work his ticket sometimes and it's so easy to think 'you're 12 for heavens sake!'. I constantly have to remind myself that his understanding of what was being asked of him when he came here was more confused than an unbroken youngster's is at which point I don't despair *quite* so much anymore 

[Trudi]

No problems Peaches, it's lovely when someone's interested enough to ask 

1) Pushing with the whip (or gentle tap or a stroke depending on sensitivity) I would try, as you say, the most sensible first  you're no slouch in the *up there for thinking, down there for dancing * then  Progress it to the other areas and as you get better with whip control a timely touch at the hock can be really activating.

  absolutely spot on with the building up!!

I love hopping off and doing a few steps in hand to lighten and then get back on, it can make a big difference and definitely settles them 

I was thinking more of an established horse being a ridden horse in it's early stages because Belasik explains the giravolta from this standpoint. Good on you for sticking with Lance and helping put him right, you'll learn an awful lot in the process.
I look forward to hearing more from you and Lance

[Peaches]

Thanks Trudi 

It's so exciting with him despite the frustration that goes with it. He's such a fab character (he's got plenty of personality  ) but he hasn't had the most ideal of starts ridden wise so he really does keep me guessing. I've learnt SOOOO much with him and he really is a horse of a lifetime. I'm lucky I've had him so early on really (had horses all my life as family breed welshies, but I'm only 18  ) as he's really opened my eyes to different methods and ideas. Before him I wasn't closed minded especially, but I didn't really veer away from 'tradition' and was very showing orientated. Having a horse that FORCES you to investigate new routes really opens your eyes, and I'll be so much more capable of managing the less-straight-forward type in the future because of him...

Horse of a lifetime 

Shall definately be giving it a go, and have a play; will look up books you mentioned too =]

[happy-horses]

sorry to jump in  I've been doing this in a head collar or loose does that matter? Also one of my horses has had issues with a rotated pelvis which meant he couldnt get his off hind under. Doing this exercise he seams to move the stiffer side (right) under easier then his then his "good" side (left). Im sure at the bhs convention Anja explained the reasoning behind this but I cant remember if she said you were meant to work on the horses stifferside (right) more, or the side that they strugle with the exercise on more 

[lisaNW]

Not quite the answer to your question, but I do remember Becky (H) saying once that while we often think its a good idea to work the horse more on the side they are stiffer/find more difficult, actually at first it is better to work them a little less on that difficult side because it is overall much harder work for them that way...and to gradually balanced it up as they start to free up. 

Lisa

[Peaches]

Lisa, that's my (non-expert   ) view on onesidedness too - take it slowly, and build up the work on the stiff side gradually to accustom them to it. It's like if your right arm is much stronger and more capable of throwing a ball further, if you decide one day to even out your left arm by throwing the ball left-handed all day 100's of times the chances are the next day you'll have a very sore very tight left arm which is just sore rather than stronger  ...

Same with the horse - build up gradually and they'll even out eventually... 

[Peaches]

Just thought I'd update you...

I hacked up to the nearby school yesterday afternoon (the one Lance hates  ) got in there and hopped off to begin with groundwork. I worked on asking him for a few strides of 'leg yield' (not sure if it's still leg yield on the ground?!) either way, asked him to back up and worked on acclimatising him to the stick a little more. Then I started to play a little with the stick down his leg when he had relaxed and began to teach him to pick each corrosponding leg up as he was tickled with the stick in the back of the knee or hock etc.

He picked that up SUPER quickely - I'd only really intended it as an exercise to get him really used to and responding to the stick (I found that when he got used to it and relaxed a little he then was ignoring it somewhat), but repeated again today before getting on for hack and the slightest touch and he lifted corrosponding leg with no help from me besides so somebodie's a bit bright! 

^(don't know if this leg lifting thing is okay? As I say, had only started as a method for getting him listening and also figured it was good for both of us to build up a method of me being able to move each leg individually from the ground later?)

Okay, back to yesterday. I then moved onto the Giravolta with him as he was then really listening. I struggled a little as he had a tendancy to move backwards a bit as he turned and crossed his movement. I presume this backwards movement wasn't correct? I can't really explain what I did rein-wise but I did manage to stop the backwards movement but that stunted the giravolta a little, but it's early days...

Am I right to stop the backwards movement?

Today we got 2-3 nice steps around which looked correct from comparing to Trudi's video.

Yesterday again; This was obviously fairly intensive if not physically but mentally to a horse not used to much groundwork, by the time I'd asked for the yielding sideways, the backing, the legs and the giravolta so I got on and just did some very quiet ridden work. WOW was he responsive to my EVERY aid  I always try to ride with my seat as much as possible but he can get a little rude and not listen properly to subtle seat aids but yesterday he was perfect - I stayed in walk on a long rein and controlled his length of walk stride through seat only along with changing direction and size of circles etc, and also managed to get him halting by lightening my seat and keeping my legs closed and we got the most fab square halts. Then started off trot work very similarly, with very little hand/mouth contact to keep him listening to seat and leg - kept it very steady as trot he has a tendancy to fire up a little. Working nicely so I started to pick up my reins cautiously and really rounded up nicely.

Worked for a short time like this on either rein alternating walk and trot with lots of transitions between and within the 2 paces. Overall I was REALLY impressed, I definately feel even this early on the groundwork is helping 

Finished off just reinforcing the groundwork at the end for 2 mins, went to run up my stirrups whilst doing so and stupidly dropped my reins and he accidentally snapped them  He got a little shock but luckily wasn't too flustered lucky man. I had to borrow a pair off a friend on the yard with the school so I could hack home again 

After that being reasonably mentally taxing yesterday we just had a nice chill out time today hacking out and relaxing without having to think too much  He might not be a baby in yrs, but he certainly is in mind; my RI always laughs that he has the attention span of a knat 

So THANK YOU so far  I'm loving this although it's early days and obviously we will have set backs but it's still great fun and so rewarding learning something new and seeing the improvements it can bring   

[Trudi]

  brilliant Peaches, I'll keep this short and sweet as my BB connection keeps dropping out which is bliddy annoying when you've typed a great long reply 

Yes, backwards is not the way forwards 'scuse the pun  Try starting with forward movement and once he is started on a small circle start to apply the giravolta aids, this will keep him thinking forwards as well as sideways. I'm so glad it's working or you and hope I'll get to see some pics of the handsome Lance doing his groundwork 

[Peaches]

Okay will give that a go next time I get a chance - not tonight probably as rushing off to a Ttouch demo as soon as I've grabbed him in from field!

I'll try and get pics, but difficult as everybody thinks I'm dippy doing it  Not in a nasty way, but it's new to them too and they haven't had the benefit of you lot explaining benefits etc so as far as they know I'm just randomly turning circles 

[Trudi]

Okay will give that a go next time I get a chance - not tonight probably as rushing off to a Ttouch demo as soon as I've grabbed him in from field!

About which you will be posting a full EE write up.....won't you??

and hey, don't worry, most folks think I'm barking but we still need 'pics Peaches!!!

[Peaches]

Oh well, just back from it! Are people really interested in the very basic TTouch to warrant a 'write up'  ?

[Claire]

dunno, never having seen it   yes .. but couldn't come out as still coughing and spluttering..

[Peaches]

Okay then, especially for you two I'll attempt getting something done over the weekend then