Enlightened Equitation
May 24, 2012, 02:47:57 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Articles Login Register Chat Shop Join EE Events 2012 Free DVD  
Amazon
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Coercion and its fallout , anyone read it ?  (Read 1481 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Moses
Expired Membership
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


WWW
« on: March 31, 2009, 12:09:32 PM »

Just decided I need to start doing some more indepth learning on behaviour and have just ordered this book , anyone read it , what do I have instore for me   cc_confused

Rach
Logged

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing !http://quarrystables.proboards.com/index.cgi
Jenny
EET level 3
EE Teachers
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 849



« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2009, 12:33:50 PM »

 No i haven,t read it as i thought it was out of print .......where did you order it from and how much?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 12:37:05 PM by Jenny » Logged

I care not so much what I am to others as what I am to myself. I will be rich by myself, and not by borrowing.
(Montaigne)
Moses
Expired Membership
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


WWW
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2009, 01:13:02 PM »

Hi , I googled it and found it at this site
sales@prairiecitybooks.com It's coming from America.It was over £ 50 .Hope it's worth it  nod
Logged

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing !http://quarrystables.proboards.com/index.cgi
Jenny
EET level 3
EE Teachers
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 849



« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2009, 05:51:09 PM »

Thanks....i will wait for your review i think before spending more money i don,t have.
Logged

I care not so much what I am to others as what I am to myself. I will be rich by myself, and not by borrowing.
(Montaigne)
Moses
Expired Membership
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2009, 10:14:16 AM »

Coercion and it's fallout by Murray Sidman .

Ok , I have finally finished it  thumbs . Feel as though I should go straight back to the beginning and start all over again .I had to read most pages several times just to make sure I could get my brain to take it all in .....( not very good at learning new stuff )  ouch

Anyway .....what an amazing book. Cannot recommend it highly enough. It is not a book about horses , only mentions horses twice I think.However the behavior it talks about is cross species, not just human.

I found the book to be very enlightening. It is mixed with the pure facts of scientific experiments and how theories were proven in the science labs usually with rats or mice and then goes on to give real life examples of how these theories work in the real world, which is very helpful for people like me with an un scientific brain .

The books overall theory is that coercion has too many side effects to make coercion a healthy and reliable tool to use.In different chapters he talks about Not all control being coercive , how punishment works and what really happens , punishments side effects , learning through Escape , Avoidance , slow learning , avoiding the unavoidable , escaping the avoidance , How do we avoid , Neurosis and mental illness , conditioned suppression , origins of the conscience .( many more but to many to write down ) .
He finally goes on to in his last chapters how using positive reinforcement can be brought int play in society .

In all these chapters he describes as what seems harmless to one person ( also animal - I have taken it to mean also ) can have very dramatic and long term side effects for another person and we should all make ourselves very aware of these side effects before we can say we are happy to continue to use punishment and coercion as a conscious decision.

The paragraph that I feel sums up the whole book is this
'' Coercion is control through negative reinforcement and punishment .Positive reinforcement does control behavior , no less than coercion does.But it can teach us new ways to act, or support what we have already learned , without creating coercion's characteristic byproducts - violence , aggression , oppression , depression , emotional and intellectual rigidity , destruction of self and others , hatred , illness , and general unhappiness.We usually punish in order to prevent conduct that we consider harmful , dangerous , or undesirable for other reasons.We justify coercion in the name of education, civilization , morality , and self - defense " . ( page 211 )

I personally think he does an excellent job of making you think long and hard about how we behave and makes us re evaluate if things could be done differently and how.

I definitely think it's a book that everyone should read , even if too dismiss it as utter rubbish, although how they could I'm not sure ......
It's hard to get hold off and very expensive , but if you ever have the chance to read it or want a Christmas present , a very good read . 
Logged

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing !http://quarrystables.proboards.com/index.cgi
Jenny
EET level 3
EE Teachers
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 849



« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2009, 10:57:07 AM »

Thanks for the feedback...i WILL get my hands on a copy  Smiley
Logged

I care not so much what I am to others as what I am to myself. I will be rich by myself, and not by borrowing.
(Montaigne)
Moses
Expired Membership
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


WWW
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 07:10:53 AM »

In fact I think it's such an important book , I have ordered some more copies from America.If anyone wants to borrow one to read it just let me know and it can get passed around. thumbs
Rach
Logged

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing !http://quarrystables.proboards.com/index.cgi
Jenny
EET level 3
EE Teachers
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 849



« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2009, 09:00:11 AM »

I would love to borrow it  nod

   Thats really kind of you
Logged

I care not so much what I am to others as what I am to myself. I will be rich by myself, and not by borrowing.
(Montaigne)
epona
Joined-June
EE Society Member
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8842



WWW
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 10:09:48 AM »

Me too!!!  Let me know when one comes available  thumbs

Thanks  hug
Logged

TOIL de FRANCE... Please sponsor me Smiley
http://toildefrance.weebly.com/

Moses
Expired Membership
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


WWW
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2009, 10:22:45 AM »

Oh good , was hoping people would be interested.If you pm me your address I will make up a list and then send it on.If whoever is reading it could post it on to the next person that would be great.As soon as it arrives I'll start the ball rolling with Jenny . thumbs

Just don't drop it in the bath like I did with my first one  rofl
Logged

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing !http://quarrystables.proboards.com/index.cgi
epona
Joined-June
EE Society Member
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8842



WWW
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2009, 10:41:41 AM »

 laugh laugh laugh  Ooooops!!!!!
Logged

TOIL de FRANCE... Please sponsor me Smiley
http://toildefrance.weebly.com/

Moses
Expired Membership
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


WWW
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 04:02:44 PM »

It's here  thumbs.

I'll get it in the post to you at some pint jenny over the weekend , Monday at latest as got a Ben Hart clinic at mine this weekend so may be a little busy.If you can pass on when read that be great,.

Happy reading  Cheesy

Rach
Logged

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing !http://quarrystables.proboards.com/index.cgi
Liza
Expired Membership
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2151



« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 05:11:10 PM »

 wave I'd love to read this too.  Will PM you my address to add to the list.  I much appreciate your kindness.
Logged



Time is what the horse needs most and your patience is the most precious gift you can give
Isabella Sontag


Liz, Black Mountains/Brecon Beacons, Powys
sixfootblonde
Joined-February
Fhoenix Agents
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2228



WWW
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 11:44:03 PM »

May I also be added to the list?  Tis very kind of you Rach x
Logged
Moses
Expired Membership
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 399


WWW
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 07:24:49 AM »

Yep no prob.You are 4 th on list . Just posted yesterday to Jenny ,Happy reading  thumbs
Logged

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing !http://quarrystables.proboards.com/index.cgi
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  




Graphics by Mandeigh

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
SMF customization services by 2by2host.com
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!