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Author Topic: Questions about lateral work and where to start  (Read 892 times)
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« on: October 11, 2008, 04:40:44 AM »

Lance and I have been working on leg yielding Cheesy and he is getting better at it so I am thinking about introducing something new.  Problem is, I don't know where to start at.  Shoulder-in, Traverse, Renvers etc are all making my head swim, I can't keep them straight.  Which is best to start with and do you start at a walk or trot? I thought about starting with half-pass but I don't think his leg yielding is good enough yet. 

I was going over what Anja Beran says about application of the aids for Travers and it doesn't make any sense (page 80 of Classical Schooling).  Once you are in the travers, the primary aids are your seat in the direction of travel (I get that) but you are also supposed to use your leg on that same side.  cc_confused Is it just me or does that sound counter productive? I understand that you are shifting your weight to go with the direction of travel but why are you applying the leg if you are trying to move in that direction? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the other leg? Lance has always been taught to move off leg pressure, not into it, this would just confuse him. Undecided 
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Mary and Lance
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Nix77
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2008, 10:30:38 AM »

it makes more sense when you are riding. basically, you want the horse curled around your leg. it feels like your inside leg asks for bend, your body positions the horse, and you 'flow' forward. i would suggest that if you can sit on a horse that can do it, and feel what it should be like it would be a lot easier to teach lance. i would volunteer don, but you are the wrong side of the atlantic...
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2008, 03:15:22 PM »

 sorry I'm still lost, if you were going to apply leg in the direction of travel wouldn't you do it in front of the girth to keep the shoulder over and apply the outside leg behind the girth to keep the hindquarters where they are and to move off it? It seems counter productive.  I know that Lance would be confused.

I don't have access to a horse that can so this so is there something easier I can start with?
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Mary and Lance
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 03:47:42 PM »

This is where it is so, so much easier to learn lateral work in hand, and also to teach the horse from the ground Mary!



Fanta and Becky demonstrating SI from the ground.

Never try to start any new lateral movement in trot. Walk gives you time and the horse, it takes longer to cross his legs than to go in a straight line too, especially when learning!

Once you have established leg yield, then shoulder in would come next, but I cannot imagine not teaching it in hand first. We really must get Becky doing the DVD of in hand work!

But from the saddle, have you got a copy of my book, Enlightened Equitation, which contains, I hope very clear instructions on the aids for shoulder in and why.

I dont know what was lost in translation with Anja's book, but I never teach the use of the seat in lateral work- it is likely to make the rider try to shove the horse sideways with the seat which blocks the horse. Don't think about even trying travers/renvers/half pass before establishing shoulder in though!!

For shoulder in, the horse must bring his forehand off the track and cross the front legs. The hindlegs stay on the track, feet facing forward moving in a normal straight line, for a three track shoulder in. On three tracks the horse makes one track with his outside hindleg, a second track with inside hind and outside foreleg, and a third track with the inside foreleg.



See Jenny's little horse Becket in one of his early attempts at shoulder in- you should have seen him this afternoon, only two months later, producing some fantastic SI and also very correct travers and half pass! I just wish I had the camcorder handy but couldnt find the wretched battery charger!

The rider turns the body to the inside, so that you are mirroring the position of the horse with your outside hip pointing down the track in line with his outside shoulder. Apply the inside leg at the girth, with the swing of the horses belly as it swings to the outside, releasing the pressure as the belly swings back ( but not letting the lower leg ping off) not behind the girth,  or you will merely get a leg yield.

Flex the horse to the inside, by 'sponging' on the inside rein, inside hand raised a little outside rein against the neck, acting with slight little nudges with the rein against the neck, (a bit like neck reining) to encourage the horse to move his forehand to the inside. Be content with a few steps to begin with, three or four are a great start! Dont worry if it is a bit leg yieldy to start with, getting the horse to understand that you want him to move forwards obliquely is quite enough for the start.

DON'T try to use your seat!! Using your leg with the swing of the belly automatically advances the seatbone in the direction of the movement, without any shoving with the seat!


Hope this helps for starters!

Heather
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 05:05:12 PM »

 Cheesy That does help very much Heather, thank you! I do have your book, rolleyes I should have looked there first.
A DVD of Becky doing in hand work would be amazing!
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Mary and Lance
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 05:08:52 PM »

My pleasure Mary.

Now all we need is decent weather to get some filming done!

Heather
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2008, 06:47:09 PM »

 Embarrassed Sorry, one more question Heather (I'm very new to lateral work, can you tell? whistle).

I was going through your book again and the section about leg yielding doesn't mention anything about what the seat should be doing. Are the aids for this just from the legs and reins? I was under the impression that you sort of tilted your seat bones in the direction of movement. 

Also, is the order in which you have the lateral work laid out in chapter 11 the order in which you teach it?
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Mary and Lance
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 07:07:58 PM »

In all lateral work, Mary, the use of the propelling leg with the swing of the belly, whether in leg yield, SI, travers, half pass etc, automatically takes the seatbone with the diagonal direction of the movement. If you are not using your leg with the swing of the belly, you will have to consciously try to move the seatbone diagonally, which is then likely to block the horse because you wont be 'going with the flow' so to speak. When you use the propelling leg with the swing of the belly, the seat just automatically flows with the direction of the movement, no pushing, which will, again, block the horses back.

I teach leg yield first, in hand on a circle, then shoulder fore which is a small degree of shoulder in. Then we would start to teach it under saddle. When both leg yield and shoulder in are established, then travers is what I would teach next, followed by half pass, and then renvers. Although travers, renvers and half pass are essentially the same movement, horses by and large, seem to find the renvers the most difficult, mainly because you are turning them 'inside out'! So that is indeed, the order I would teach it.

Heather
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2008, 07:27:07 PM »

So basically the correct use of the leg will take the seat with the movement.  But how do you teach leg yielding in hand on a circle? To leg yield you are moving across the area, how do you teach that on a circle?
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Mary and Lance
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2008, 08:13:29 PM »

It is just making a lateral step ie a diagonal line on a circle, Mary, this is where we need the DVD!!

Start off on a very small circle, basically the horses own length- in Portugal this is called 'giravolta'. Just moving the horses around the forehand crossing the hindlegs over well. It is such a useful exercise to free the back behind the saddle too and teach the horse to move sideways.


In the pic of Beck and Fanta earlier in the thread, you can see how she is flexing him to the left with her left hand, and the right hand is in the girth area with the outside rein over the neck helping to bring the horse's shoulder over. In the giravolta, the inside hand is further back for the leg yield movement to push the hindquarters over and around.

Heather
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