Tried the Vogue today

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And I still don't know what to think about it.    Since this was my first ride and Lance was wound up pretty tight today I am going to wait for my overall like or dislike until I have a chance to try it with the suberpanel and the knee blocks.  Today I just tried the saddle, nothing else.

Here is a break down of what all happened.  When I went to get on (from a mounting block) the saddle slid over probably a good 4 inches or so.  This I think I am going to blame on the girth, I can't find a Professional Choice girth anywhere here so I had to use something else that I don't think I like.  Once I got on though I really liked how the saddle felt, Heather it has the most squish of any saddle I have ever been on. 

Here is where I think I will have to adjust to it though.  It really felt like my hips were being jammed up into my spine in walk and trot. Everything was tight and immobile and I really had to arch my back.  I think it was me though, later on I was trying to stretch my hips out and I moved my legs forward a bit, instantly my hips felt looser.  I think I was pulling my legs too far back and I really had to bring them forward.  Is this a normal reaction?    

Through the ride though, the saddle did slip back a few inches but I still blame the girth, I really don't like that one.  Tomorrow I am going to try it with the suberpanel and the kneeblocks. My dad took pictures but they are really bad, it was cold so I am wearing my big coat and I have horrible positioning, he left before I realized to bring my legs forward. 

Is it okay for the saddle to touch the spine?  I stuck my hand down into the gullet area and it was definitely on his spine.  I know the saddle is treeless so I'm not supposed to worry about it but is it really okay for all that weight to be there?

I will try and get better pictures tomorrow, hopefully it won't be so windy and cold.

[Torsornin]

when I first rode n one of heathers saddles awhile back I did the same darn thing...arched back, tipping forward legs way back...I eventually got more used to it, but I needed the stirrups more forward for jumping. Ride in it a bunch of times...perhaps lunge Lance a bit so he is tired before you try it again...with this cold he is bound to be a bit "up"

[Heather]

Hi Mary,

You should be asking Shannon all these questions as that is what she is there for! If you are not used to sitting in the dressage position, it will feel extreme to you to start with. The saddle will put you in the ear/shoulder/hip/heel line of balance, so whatever you do, dont try to bring your legs back further, or your heels will be behind this line and putting you on your fork! Yous houdl NOT have to arch your back! And this was without t eh kneeblocks? It will be worse with them, so dont use them.

I cannot understand why it is feeling so exceptionally alien to you, as this is truly the only time that anyone has not felt instantly better in it except one rider, who truly was far too large to fit it, and blamed the saddle.

Photos of you on it would help, but if it was very cold and you are not used to riding in the classical position, this wouldnt help either. It has been very cold here for a couple of days, well, at least, for Devon!- and I have hardly ridden since January due to the dental surgery and illness. I have ridden Rei twice this week, and boy can I feel it! This happens because you are stretching muscles that you dont use for any other purpose than riding, and if you havent been sitting in the classical seat prior to trying the saddle you will experience stretching that you will never have felt before!

When you next get on, take your feet out of the stirrups, bring your knees up over the front of the saddle so that your legs are hanging in front of the flaps. Slide your butt forward and then drop your legs down again. This will bring you into the perfect centre of balance, and if you are feeling the stretch it is due to a complete repositioning, and is something you either have to persevere with, or get a GP saddle and put the knee blocks well forward or not at all, to permit more of a chair seat. The latter is not good for the horse's back as all the pressure goes down over the part of the back we want him to lift!!

Heather

[whisper's mum]

Just a thought...you say you tried the saddle and nothing else...do you mean you didn't have any panels under it at all? I'm sure you must've had the foam ones but I thought it might be worth asking because if you'd not used any, I'd expect a problem with slippage and spinal clearance. 

[smileyginger]

another thought - I didn't have any slipping problems, but I did have the wonky pelvis/arched feeling when I first started using mine.  I wonder if it is just a "muscle memory" issue - for those of us who had been riding in too-forward-stirrup-bar saddles, when we are put in the correct position, it takes a while for the lumbar area/legs to make that adjustment.  I also notice it when my saddle is very cold, I feel like that at first until everything settles in and there's a sort of "ahhh, there we go" feeling...  again, just MHO.

[Heather]

Hi again Mary,

The saddles must never be used on their own with no saddle cloth. They are designed to be used with one, and not without- the construction at the front means that we have to have a seam across the arch and it could rub if it came into contact for any reason. The saddle should under no circumstances touch the spine, and will only do so if there is atrophy, and must be used with appropriate padding.

Can you pm me please?


Heather

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PM on it's way Heather.

[Heather]

Thanks Mary,

She didnt use it with no cloth, folks- but it did read that way Mary!!

Heather

[Elinda]

hello mary,

when i got the classic fhoenix last year i was wonky indeed. all those years (30 or so) of pulling my leg back to the classical position caused me to want to do the same ... on the mountain trails i kept falling on my fork and it was the downhill part of the rides that really helped me understand what i'd been doing all these years.

i have a suberpanel saddle and used the pro choice girth on the first trail ride - no slips, no drips and no worries for side to side or front to back slippage. you can order pro choice from online tack shops and may be able to find them on ebay too.

today it's great to sit w/ my legs hanging down in a natural and balanced way when i ride on the classic fhoenix. i did find it was a bit too wide for my hip comfort and i got a seatsaver which i love. in the winter i keep it in my jacket while tacking up - slide it on just before mounting and i have a warm, soft welcoming saddle from the first stride.

i got the vogue last week - my first ride was like a first date since it's been 2 years since i rode in a saddle w/ a twist.
no worries w/ the leg position since i've been working on that w/ the classic fhoenix
no worries w/ slippage since i've got both the pro-choice & wintec girth that both work well
no worries about padding since i have the suberpanel and shannon sent other pads based on my descriptions of a few different horses so i could experiment.

on the first ride the pommel felt a bit close but i don't notice it a week later and the most important feature i found to be different was how my thigh was cradled by the saddle in the most close, comfortable and secure place - right where it is supposed to be. my seat was connected at all 3 points and my tailbone (previously broken) was so happy i could have ridden for hours

i'll put some pics up on the thread i started about the vogue in utah later today. not the best turnout on my part  but after some time off i'd rather be riding than looking like a model 

elinda

[Elinda]

You should be asking Shannon all these questions as that is what she is there for!

i wholeheartedly second that bit of advice. shannon has been a wealth of info and great support for me. as a prospective buyer and new EE agent i flooded her w/ questions by phone and email and every step of the way she's offered suggestions and advice.

mary, do you have skype on your computer? if so you can call/chat w/ shannon in real time for no long distance/international costs. i've been using skype for my coaching biz for years and find it is really a great service - there is no fee for the connection for me or for my clients.

looking forward to reading about your next 'in-vogue' experiences.

elinda

[zibadiva]

Hi Mary,
I just saw your post too, and wanted to give you some encouragement and support (as others are doing!)  Shannon is a great resource and would be a super support source. 
As a US Agent, I just want to say that we (us agents) all want to make sure our customers (who often are a long distance away) have the live support and advice they need to have the best experience with their new saddles and we appreciate customers who communicate often - the more the better in fact, so don't hold back!   

First off, be sure to mount via mounting block - and that goes for any saddles, especially treelesses as they have less rigid support to "cling" to the horse's back when weighted on one side.

Second, be sure to incrementally tighten the girth on ground and before mounting so that the saddle is less likely to move/slip.  Also recommended after mounting as the saddle will settle a bit.

Heather & Shannon will talk to you about saddle fit issues, but I'd also like to share my first experiences with the EE Saddles.
I felt instantly comfortable sitting in my saddle, but instantly awkward in posting trot in my new SBS a few years back. After having been having to "force" a correct dressage position for years, I wasn't even conscious of my body tensions in this respect.  So, in Heather's saddle the first few rides, an onlooker might have seen my heels heading towards my horse's flanks!   

Anyways that first week of riding in it allowed for many adjustments and growing awarenesses about my riding habits made conscious.  My horse was ever so reactive to the slightest changes in tension/relaxation, weight distribution etc.  I experimented with different feels during posting trot and found the BEST results were from really simplifying my riding - ie really relaxing my legs instead of forcing them into position, having a strong core, but releasing the tensions throughout.  I was blown away by the instantaneous response my horse had in the trot just by consciously relaxing my legs - she instantly started to swing her back and blow regularly.  This all came about from riding in this saddle!

So, don't be too discouraged and keep at it, you'll see!
and as everyone has said, it can be really helpful to post pictures.

Cheers,
Karen
US EE Agent - Vogue & Fhoenix Saddle
www.justequus.com

[Heather]

Thanks Karen,

Great post!!

Heather

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Thanks for all the help everyone! Today I tried it with the suberpanel and everything felt lots better! I still have to get used to the different feel of the saddle but I don't feel a squished in like last time.  Part of me thinks that the suberpanel gives it that feel of a narrow twist and I sit on that better I guess.

It still slid a bit so I think I need to find a different girth, I really don't like the one I have.
These are after we got done riding

[Natural Dressage]

Thank you everyone!  You have all said it so well, great info. Karen and Elinda (two of our US agents).  What a wonderful knowledgable and supportive group of agents we are developing over here in the US

Mary, have emailed my phone number to you, I keep unlimited long distance for this very reason, so we can talk by phone any time at no expense:)  Glad to hear things are working better, sp looks nice on him, fairly level in 1st photo, but a bit higher towards rear in second, was this possibly due to unlevel ground?

Shannon

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sp looks nice on him, fairly level in 1st photo, but a bit higher towards rear in second, was this possibly due to unlevel ground?

Probably, he was standing on a slight hill, it is so hard to find level ground out here.