Longeing

[alexa]

I am trying to improve my longeing as I do it quite often, usually prior to mounted work but sometimes alone. I have a good book "schooling horses in hand" by Richard Hinrichs where the first part is on basic longeing. I want it to be of use to the horse not just a way of him letting off steam. I would like to see him relaxed and supple, which I occasionally get but it is because HE feels like it not because I am asking for it and he is complying. Where I would like some input from people is on the following points.

1. For him to listen to me :  And not be more interested in what is going on next door, other horse, dog, person, tractor etc. I try to vary paces and directions so to keep interest.

2. To slow him down:  I have the greatest difficulty in getting a walk. He will (usually) walk when requested but after a few strides will return to trot. Canter is easy.  He is nearly 15 years old and I would like him to warm up slowly, not start trotting immediately.

3. I would like also to be able to have him circle and then extend the size of the circle and then make it smaller again, staying out on a real circle not coming closer on one side where he doesn't like the ground (or whatever reason he has for doing this).

I think the basic problem is that I am not imposing enough respect and am rather lazy , in that I am not consistent and will sometimes just let him trot on when he has not been asked to do so.

Any ideas would be very welcome.
I longe using a snaffle (take off the reins) and thread the lunge line through the snaffle ring on one side then over the top of the head and down through the snaffle ring on the other side, which is the way I was tought originally. There are no draw reins or side reins.

Many thanks for any input you may have.
Alex

[rach]

Hi Alex,

Some ideas based on your points which you may find useful:

1)  If he's more interested in what's going on around him than focusing on you, he will be counter-bent on the circle. I would encourage him to flex slightly to the inside (though I would strongly suggest a cavesson rather than lungeing from the bit for this) and encourage him to use his hindlegs more actively by timing the application of the whip with the inside hind coming forward. If he's really not apt to listen at all I would go back to basic leading work to ensure that he pays attention to you and uses you as his cue for what he does rather than doing his own thing. As you mention in point 2 that you have a problem slowing him down, this does indicate that he is not paying attention to you. I would therefore do some groundwork based on leading and asking him to stop and walk on etc according to your body language. You could use an assistant but this won't get over the underlying problem of lack of attention/respect.

It might be worth your while to get hold of Philippe Karl's Classical Dressage series of DVDs - well the first one particularly. PK lunges differently, in that he will use the whole arena. There's a lot to be said for combining traditional lungeing with more movement around the arena, not the least of which is that it is not so boring for the horse.

I believe lack of attention presumably as a result of lack of clear direction is to blame for his not wanting to slow down, and I would certainly use ground work in hand to correct his inattention.

If you do get PK's DVD it will also cover what to do to keep the horse at the end of the line. Many of the options you have available are cut down through using the lunge line attached to the bit - this can be quite harsh and I really wouldn't recommend it, especially for a horse who is inattentive with poor lungeing manners.

last but not least I would see if you can gain some instruction in the art of lungeing - it really is an art, with as many subtleties and complexities as riding, and nothing like as easy to do properly as one might think.



 

[shoveltrash]

i too am interested in improving my lungeing technique with my young stallion...so this thread is of great interest!

Rach - what type of cavesson do you use?  i saw your pics of Q (in the "horse photos" thread) and was trying to figure out exactly what kind it was....
do you use side reins hooked to the cavesson?  or is it a cavesson over a bridle?  can you elaborate on what you have found successful in regards to lungeing equipment?
(sorry for all the questions!)
thanks so much!
Trish

ps - Q's pics just make me DROOL , he is gorgeous!

[rach]

Hi Trish

I use a Portuguese cavesson. I've attached a close up photo of the cavesson to this post. I use Vienna or sliding side reins attached to the bit rings, lunge line if I am using one to the centre ring on the cavesson, and for things we are just flirting with, such as long reining, attach the long lines to the cavesson rings on either side as I'm not established enough in this with him to have a direct connection to the bit, although I used to when long reining Meg.

I know a lot of people are against side reins but I like them. I use them loosely adjusted so they are not prescriptive, merely guiding. I'll attach another pic (free schooling rather than lungeing) to show the sort of connection I am looking for with the side reins.

Here's the cavesson pic:

[shoveltrash]

oh NICE cavesson!!  something else for me to try and find, to spend money on...
just curious, where did you purchase it?  i have a regular cavesson, but it does not work well with a bridle under it.

i agree with you re: side reins.  i would NEVER use them adjusted tightly, but find that loosely adjusted they provide "limits" for my young horse (he knows those limits too - it helps).  
thanks for posting that pic!  the search is on........
Trish
ps - i'll check back for your other piccie!

[pintopiaffe]

Trish, I actually use the cheap economy cavesson from Dover's.  Take off the browband.  It's thin enough and lightweight enough that it works fine with a bridle, though I *prefer* to use just a lungeing 'slip', a bradoon strap with snaps for the bit for REAL lunge work.

At any rate this is one case where cheaper is better.  I had a HUGE, beautiful cavesson that I have since donated to the Farm for breeding the Fjord stallion.  Just too MUCH of it to be much use on anything but a HUGE headed hannosaurus or such.

Alexa, what happens if you walk out with him in the beginning?  Next to him first, prescribing hte circle... then a few steps back, just far enough to keep him in the triangle of whip and line... using the footprints from the first circle to keep you honest... only backing up a step at a time until he's going where he belongs and you are planted on one heel, circling with the other foot?  Might take a whole session, but I bet not that long if you put your mind to it.    

[rach]

Hi Trish
This is one you might have seen already on the stallion list files.
Anyway the cavesson is Portuguese and worth its weight in gold IMO. This is my favourite attire for lungeing tho' he doesn't always get plaited up for it <g>

Rach
 

[alexa]

Thanks Rach, I will see if I can find these DVDs through internet. A good suggestion as in the book I have there are a numbr of pictures but the movement from a film would give a much better idea.

regards

[thecatsmother]

PK lunges differently, in that he will use the whole arena. There's a lot to be said for combining traditional lungeing with more movement around the arena, not the least of which is that it is not so boring for the horse.

This is the technique I've been taught too. On the more traditional side, walking a smaller circle with the horse allows you to (as Rach suggests) encourage him to step under more by gently touching the inside hind with the whip as it swings under. When he's used to this even just twitching the whip towards that hind without touching it can have the same effect   . Using the whole school rather than just a constant circle is great as it allows one to incorporate jumps, trotting poles etc. E.g. in our indoor school I might set up 5 trotting poles halfway down one of the long sides, and a small crosspole resting on buckets etc at a 45 degree angle at one of the corners at the end of the other long side. Then I might start lungeing at the end without the jump, and once we've got the trot coming along nicely, after coming around the short side, run down the long side containing the trotting poles with him. He realises that as soon as I stop gently following the circle, but instead hold the lunge line out in front of me and start jogging in parrallel with him, he's to go straight on instead of circling round me. So, off he goes trotting down the long side, over the trotting poles, which really gets him using himself well. Then we may continue down round the short end, (missing out the little crosspole), then back up the long side without the trotting poles, still with me running alongside him, but now vocalling and visually (using raised arms, and sort of goose-stepping in my run) encouraging him to lengthen his trot stride. Next time after coming down over the trotting poles we may stay down the other end, on a circle, so he can go over the little crosspole. It means the horse isn't always working on a circle but also has straight lines too, he has a bit of variety, and he must stay focussed on you to know where he's supposed to  go next. It's exhilerating and fun   I can only manage a couple of sides of lengthened trot before I'm puffing though  :blush:  :lol:

 

[rach]

Hi Alex

Forgot to say, Richard Hinrichs has a video to accompany his "Schooling horses in hand" book, which is very good, and there is also a small book by Sylvia Stanier on lungeing, which is also useful.

Good luck
Rach

[shoveltrash]

thanks Alexa for starting this up!

I *prefer* to use just a lungeing 'slip', a bradoon strap with snaps for the bit for REAL lunge work.

Pintopiaffe, what is this???  
can you tell me how it works, where you got it, what you like about it?
(weighing all options here)

so i am now making my *wish list* of things to get (i'm going to have to work some overtime! ).
books, dvds, equipment.....
i totally agree with 'thecatsmother.'  lungeing with variety is wonderful - for the horse AND for the handler (helps keep me in shape!).  
i don't like the idea of continual small circles anyway, especially for a young horse.  my 3 y/o gets very bored with it, and i end up with no impulsion!  so 'variety' of poles, different figures, & such is a MUST.
i think i may have the opposite problem of Alexa - a horse that is lazy <_<

Rach just one more question.....what are the advantages of 'vienna/sliding' side reins?  i can't thank you enough for all the info!!!!

thanks everybody!!!
Trish

[Jolene]

I can add that a bridoon slip is just a piece of leather with either buckles, studs, or snaps at the end.  All it does is go over the head and typically in a double bridle rests under the rest of the bridle and holds the bridoon.  I know some of the english catalogs have them, I'm nearly positive Dover Saddlery or State Line Tack does.

[franklin]

Hi,
I suggest The Art of Lungeing by Sylvia Stanier, available fron the BHS shop on line. Brilliant, covers everything you need to know. It works as I use  this method all the time. If there are any problems let me know and I will try to get an answer from Sylvia Stanier for you.
Jenny.  

[Mandeigh]

I am all for the non circle lunging too.......I have been known (and seen running around a 20 acre field cantering along side (nearly) the horse.  I still use circles as an exercise, but I prefer to get long straight bits.  It does make it a very physical exercise for the trainer too......and you do have to watch you don't trip and stuff.

 

[pintopiaffe]

I certainly use the whole ring for lungeing as well--but *I* don't believe you can (or should) until the horse is going *correctly* on a circle, respecting the whip as a forward aid.

I think they really do need to be consistenly prescribing a CORRECT circle before you begin to improvise.  It's much easier with two people.  But I work alone and it can be done with one.