Alexandra Kurland....which books are best? i want to learn!

[shoveltrash]

i have decided to pursue clicker training with my boy.  i've read that Alexandra Kurland's books are good, but which books?  she has five!  plus videos  ???

any recommendations?
thanks in advance!!! 

[epona]

Great idea Trish!!

I havent read any Alexanda Kurlands books but enjoyed this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1872119271/202-5995125-7731006

Clicker training is GREAT!  LB will love it and it also trains 'us' to look for the tiniest positive to reward

Good Luck!

[mrsmurchin]

An additional book to read alongside of CT is Karon Pryor's Don't shoot the dog.  http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_/203-4165138-9471110?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=don%27t+shoot+the+dog&Go.x=13&Go.y=14

It gives a brilliant insight in to +ve and -ve reinforcement, plus scheduling, bridging signals, extinction bursts, etc.  Makes you think about how people learn as well, not just animals.

Elaine.

[hilary]

Hi Trish,

I don't know that Alex had written 5 books, but I would reccomend  the  Step by Step book, and then the Riding with the Clicker book.The step by Step book gives  a load of specific lessons - really important to get the emotional control around food sorted -  as they often go through a very keen phase!
There are 2 yahoo groups that give  clciker related info  -  clickryder, and also  -  the click that teaches . The latter is more specific to Alex's riding book -  I think you have to have got the book to join.

The best way I can describe the last clinic with Alex was like doing Pilates for horses. We were clicking for tiny movement-initially for a rock back(the moment before the horse takes a stepback), and then clicking for seeing the abdominal muscles contract as part of the rock back.You could then see the back lift as the abdomen contracted.

Alex uses quite a lot of John Lyons stuff, and also spent time with Bettina Drummond , -her ethos does fit into the classical side of life.

Good luck , and enjoy

HIlary

[shoveltrash]

The step by Step book gives  a load of specific lessons - really important to get the emotional control around food sorted -  as they often go through a very keen phase!

yep, that is a concern of mine.....very reassuring!  thank you  .
i'm keen to set up a *different dialogue* with my horse.  he is spookily intelligent, sometimes too much so  : .  our work together has detiorated because IMHO he has developed some resentment for my aids, since they are backed up with the whip/etc.  i am eager to change this!

it also trains 'us' to look for the tiniest positive to reward

exactly what i am seeking  .

so, i've ordered those two Kurland books! 
off to check out the other recommendations now - thanks everybody!!!

any other "advising" on this would be wonderful.....i may be asking LOTS of questions  .

[Jolene]

I love clicker-ing.  My recommendations:  fanny pack (this is a bumbag I think in the UK, it sits around your waist, not your, um, what you mean in the UK when you say fanny) and boss as you can give all of this you want really without adding simple carbs, etc.  I do use oats for Lady as she goes absolutely gaga over them, usually if I'm trying to train something she doesn't want to do, as it's a big reward.  Basically, all you have to do is learn to watch for the slightest of tries, and click it.  This is where the timing comes in, you have to see when the horse is thinking about doing the first step of what you want, and reward that.  And then you build.  I used it a lot to reinforce something I was doing with negative reinforcement, actually, to teach Lady to actually swing her butt TO me.  My most clicker-intensive training was for her to come to me at the mounting block.  I got her to come to me quite easily, actually, but then she would swing her butt away!  So I got a stiff stick (a carrot stick, if you will) and taught her to move away from it when I tapped her hip, on top.  Did that each side, and then progressed to teaching her to bring her hip TO me when I tapped from the other side, that was the tricky part which I don't think I would've gotten if I hadn't used the clicker, as she really didn't understand why I would want her to do such a thing, polite girl that she is.  Then every time I had her come to the mounting block, I'd just bring her butt back over, and voila!  Tagged on the voice command, "Come Here" and now have a horse that shimmies over to me at the mounting block.  You just have to break things down in parts, and not use a voice command until you have the actual movement, you tag it on when it's established.  Happy reading!

ETA:  Forgot to mention that I don't put the fanny pack over my stomach, I sling it so it's on my left hip, doesn't look so dorky and it's farther for the horse to reach and try to mug you initially.

[shoveltrash]

that's encouraging Jolene.  the more i think about it, the more it makes sense to me.......to change the 'reinforcement' and the communication mode.

i just don't know how this will translate under saddle though  .
(off to post new topic on this!)

[Liza]

Where do I find the Riding with the Clicker book?  Can't find it on Amazon but I'm probably just being dim

[Jolene]

Is it this one?:
http://www.amazon.com/Clicker-Training-Horse-Alexandra-Kurland/dp/1890948357/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-4312584-8868602?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186145554&sr=8-1

Or perhaps it's available on her website?  I think hers is http://www.clickertraining.com/

[Liza]

Thanks Jolene, I've already got "Clicker Training for your Horse" but I thought there was another one that specifically dealt with clicker training under saddle.  Can't find it anywhere now though - perhaps I dreamt it!!

[Jolene]

Ahhhh, how about: "The Click That Teaches, Riding With the Clicker"???    Above website is Karen Pryor, Alex's website is http://www.theclickercenter.com and the book is right on the front page 

[Liza]

Yes, that's the one Jolene!  Don't seem to be able to get it in this country though :(

[hilary]

Alex will send it from America

Hilaryc

[samboc77]

I have the book that Vicky recommended and I think its fab

I have start using this to teach Trinity about the saddle and that its not going to hurt her (she was electricuted when she wouldn't stand still after having her saddle put on for the first time.... they backed her in to a mains electric fence ) It is really working and she is going from strength to strength

Let us know how you get on

[Claire]

course if you're in the states, she does clinics

http://theclickercenter.com/2004/clinics/clinic01.php

i know she's been in the uk in the past, but there's nothing up for this year....