The different panles

[Natural Dressage]

Wow, lots of great input on this thread.

The panels on the new Vogue should look pretty much the same.  I will post pics as soon as I get my first model.

Ah, so Christina is already using a suberpanel on Comet, if I understand correctly, and it clears his withers and spine fine.  So then the problem, I understand is mainly sliding back and it tips you slightly forward? 

I agree that if you stay with the sp,  adding some kind of lift between the panel and saddle is ideal - idea, what about using a prolite model fhoenix (you know now the panels velcro and can be opened up) with nothing in the panels except in the front, as a lift.  This could be done so it is like part of the saddle, instead of an extra shifty pad. 

Another idea:  The suberpanel saddles do have that velcro strip.  You could take the new EE wither pad (great for a front lift and glue a velcro square to the top/middle of it, so that it velcros onto the velcro strip on the bottom of your suberpanel saddle.  This way it would all be connected to prevent sliding and falling out, but also is still easily removed and reinserted when riding different horses. ie the wither pad would be under the front of the saddle, above the suberpanel - it would be very nondiscript too, as it is sleekly covered in black cotton.

[Natural Dressage]

Just want to make sure no panel confusion going on here. 

Christina you are talking about using a suberPANEL saddle - ie no foam cushioned panels under the saddle just a cork filled panel that hooks to d's at the front and back of the saddle

vs.

a SuberPAD is a cork filled pad with no hooks to attach to D rings and is thinner so that you use it underneath existing foam panels on the Fhoenix.

perhaps you have both, but just wanted to make sure we are all clear on our terminology

[christuris]

Natural Dressage wrote:

Christina you are talking about using a suberPANEL saddle - ie no foam cushioned panels under the saddle just a cork filled panel that hooks to d's at the front and back of the saddle

Yes, that's what I've been trying to say.  There is no option to switch between the two - I have no pockets to slip shims into.  There is a velcro strip along the bottom. 

a SuberPAD is a cork filled pad with no hooks to attach to D rings and is thinner so that you use it underneath existing foam panels on the Fhoenix.

perhaps you have both, but just wanted to make sure we are all clear on our terminology

I have both.  I use the SuberPAD underneath the Flexion because of the squished panels, and would also use it under my Barry Swain because it's now too wide for Comet.  (Not that I usually ride in it any more -- it's for sale.)

Ah, so Christina is already using a suberpanel on Comet, if I understand correctly, and it clears his withers and spine fine.  So then the problem, I understand is mainly sliding back and it tips you slightly forward?

Right.  I don't mind it sliding back a little, but when it does, I would like for the saddle to stay level and not tilt me forward.  Having different levels of fill pads to attach to the saddle itself between the saddle and the Suberpanel would be ideal.  Perhaps having a separate little Suberpad with wide velcro sewn on along the spine area to attach it to the saddle would give me the additional lift only in front that I need.  Jeez, seems to me I should be able to make that myself!  I could have different thicknesses and widths to accommodate exactly where the fill needed to be.

If it's inserted between the saddle and the Suberpanel, then there would be no dropoff where the insertion pad ended, probably right underneath my seat.

Does this make any sense at all?

I'm thinking that the Suberpanel as it is currently made would accommodate perhaps 75% of horses, but for the others, there needs to be a way to build up the front because the existing Suberpanel doesn't have quite enough leeway for more lift in front.  Shifting all the cork towards the front doesn't work for me because it goes rock hard.

I agree that if you stay with the sp,  adding some kind of lift between the panel and saddle is ideal - idea, what about using a prolite model fhoenix (you know now the panels velcro and can be opened up) with nothing in the panels except in the front, as a lift.  This could be done so it is like part of the saddle, instead of an extra shifty pad. 

But would that give enough cushion in the back?  I've never seen pictures to show exactly how that works, so it's hard to say.  You mean the whole panel now comes off?  Wow!  Would either option be available in the Vogue/Portuguese saddle?  I mean, adjusting the Suberpanel height or the prolite panel height in one saddle?  I won't buy another old type Fhoenix, but would consider the two new models perhaps.  The more options, the better!

Another idea:  The suberpanel saddles do have that velcro strip.  You could take the new EE wither pad (great for a front lift and glue a velcro square to the top/middle of it, so that it velcros onto the velcro strip on the bottom of your suberpanel saddle.  This way it would all be connected to prevent sliding and falling out, but also is still easily removed and reinserted when riding different horses. ie the wither pad would be under the front of the saddle, above the suberpanel - it would be very nondiscript too, as it is sleekly covered in black cotton.

Yes, or a mini cork filled pad.  I guess I could I do this with my existing Fhoenix to see how it would work.  I'm wondering what the options would be for my Flexion since it's a fixed prolite panel with no insertion points for shims.  I wish there was a way I could remove the whole of the old panels and just attach a Suberpanel to it (I have two).  Any chance of that?

I appreciate your thinking all this through, and perhaps it will give Heather ideas as to how to make the saddle more adaptable to different horses who have rather odd shapes...!

Christina
Indian Hills, Colorado
http://AlphabetRanch.smugmug.com

[myhorsefaith]

since we're chatting about pads (well, i've been lurking and reading this thread) I just thought i'd share something i did for one of my horses in training (HIT)so maybe this will work for someone else too...

I have the EE backsaver pad, and I also have a fleeceworks perfect balance 1/2 pad with foam inserts on either side of the wither... well this HIT was going ok with just the fleeceworks with its foam inserts...but i noticed he could probably use the help of the backsaver...so after some fiddling with both pads, I realized i could fit the EE pad INTO the fleeceworks half pad. Yes, there is an opening along the top of the fleeceworks pad to allow for bigger shim panels that would run the length of the pad. With some effort on my part, the EE pad fit perfectly into this fleeceworks pad!!

Now, for the true test- the horse... tacked him up in my new invention, and voila, he went Oh so much better than ever before.

So now i ride him in this combo and he's a much happier dude!

scroll down...its called the "perfect balance" pad

http://www.fleeceworks.com/saddlepads.htm

[Natural Dressage]

Brilliant inventiveness, MHF, Thanks for sharing!   Great to know the EE pad was actually compatable with the PBP!

Christina,

I think we would really be able to nail down our strategy with a talk on the phone.  I'll PM you my number, in case you want to call.

Yes, now the panels have leather pockets that can be opened up and the contents removed, switched out or added too, leaving the perfect opportunity for custom fitting and shimming in a way that is all part of the saddle!

I'm sure there would be a way you could remove the old squished panels in your flexion, if you were fealing esp. brave and creative, it is going to require some cutting apart.  I haven't done this before my self - anyone out there who's tried it - maybe this would be an interesting new thread to try.  I'm thinking you don't have alot to lose since there is damage anyway - Heather would be a good resource here too, since she knows how it was constructed.  You could remove the whole panel system and cover the bottom yourself with flannel or something, or take it to a saddler and have them cover in leather, (then you would have basically a suberpanel model) I'm thinking.  Another idea would be to try removing only the foam in the panels and by making a tidy cut along the inside of the gullet and then perhaps you could even replace the contents with new foam or use them as pockets for shimming??  The novice seamstress side of me is envisioning ideas for possibly even attaching your own velcro to make then into your own open/closable panels.

The nice thing with the new Vogue is you could buy a moulded panel model with extra D's which gives you all of the options including using the suberpanel.

If you could put you extra pad above your suberpanel on your current saddle, I don't think you would need to the trouble of getting a cork one, as the cork suberpanel underneath would make it impossible for the horse to feel the difference anyway.

[christuris]

Yes, I did pretty much the same thing as myhorsefaith with my Flexion and the Mattes sheepskin half pad with the pockets.  I had an ancient backsaver pad which wasn't cut high enough over the withers for my OTTB, GR, so I cut it up and stuck them into the pad -- I think I had to cut them into four for that particular pad.  But it was rather bulky, even though it did lift the saddle into the correct position for him -- it wasn't sliding backwards, but rather sitting on his withers and I had to use all four shims.  With Comet, I took out the back two and that worked quite well.  But with the Fhoenix it's just too bulky.  Plus, it wasn't very stable on either horse!

I've often thought about cutting into the Flexion to do pretty much what you suggest, Shannon, and making adjustments integral to the saddle itself.  I'd like to be able to use any regular saddle pad I want, and not be fussing with additional pads.  But I was nervous about it, not knowing exactly what I would find when I got inside!  I would think that cutting along the inside of the gullet would be good, as then the slit and contents wouldn't be seen from the side.  WBut would it stay put, though and not all just squish into the gullet area?  I think the simplest would be just to remove all the prolite and then setting the saddle on my second Suberpanel would do the trick, even without the rear D ring.  Maybe sewing velcro along the top of the panel and gluing the other strip to the underside of the saddle would work...?

With the Fhoenix, I'm thinking that it would be best to velcro an additional shim or something to the underneath of the saddle itself, but I'm wondering whether that shim would displace the cork and make the whole effort redundant?!

So, maybe we can talk this weekend sometime, Shannon?  I'd love to get this resolved!

Christina
Indian Hills, Colorado
http://AlphabetRanch.smugmug.com