Help With Downward Transition

[Alexandra]

Well the upward is getting better and better all the time, no hollowing and no rushing. He's sometimes slow to strike off but we can work on sharpening that up. We still struggle with the downward transition back to trot. He can now canter really nice and balanced with little rushing or breaking but the moment I think trot I must tense up because he raises his head, comes against the hand and when we come back to trot he runs out the front end for about 3 strides before I can balance him again and he softens.
When cantering on the pessoa his downward transition is a lot calmer although he does still come up against the bit for a stride and I can see from the ground the jolty bit that I tense up against.
Are there any exercises I can do get him more balanced in the downward transition and what should I be doing myself? Should I be staying really really relaxed or using my seat or what? I know I brace my leg and back against the downward but not sure how to keep my body doing what it should be doing to help him if htat makes sense.
I do lots of walk/trot/halt/trot etc transitions before I start the canter stuff but a nice calm downward seems more a fluke than anything else and actually the best downwards are when he breaks to trot...so it must be something i'm doing or interfering with.

Really need some helpful hints from you guys!  

[Larri DB]

Awaiting the answers with baited breath , I am currently having EXACTLY the same issue with Safi. Have worked a lot on our transitions and our canter and this is our biggest issue. Safi even does on the lunge though...just falls back into the trot and runs on with her nose in the air urgh, looks and feels horrible.


HELP!!!!! :(  

[pintopiaffe]

gee... no one wants to jump in here?  lol!

Take this all with a grain of salt.  I've learned more in this past year than I have in the past 30 years of riding, so my opinions and ideas are subject to change!  Obviously without seeing your or your horse, we can only speak in the most general of terms.... but I'll take a crack at it.

When a horse is having trouble with something like this, I go back to very basics--VERY, like the voice aid.  It's the most unobtrusive aid that does the least 'interfereing'.  So I'd start on the lunge and really establish the 'terrr-ot' cue.  Lots of transitions on the lunge.  I tend to forget to use my voice under saddle--since it's not allowed in the show ring--and it sounds like you're already doing the lunge work, so just add the voice if you're not.   Another really useful 'aural' cue we use is the 'calm down' cue.  We use a certain whistle, going down in pitch, and the horse tunes into it.  It can be a come down or calm down from anything... but it's helpful too if we're rushing around like a giraffe on crack.

Then use the voice while riding.  Voice only/first if it works--and you trying to stay as stable and balanced and 'out-of-the-way' as possible.  

As far as ME,  canter is very easy to get your hips sort of locked into the rhythm... and truly, usually *all* it takes to canter down to trot is to break that, and let the inside hip drop back OUT of the rhythm.  I'm not going to explain this well     Your inside hip is a bit forward to canter... your entire pelvis swings once at each stride... to canter-to-trot I walk the inside hip back and outside forward--in the way that they would work in the trot.   The horse follows.  

Have you ever been on a horse that will collect the canter all day but won't down transition?  This is the ONLY way to get that horse to trot... you've got to put your seat into trot, and the horse follows.  

Make sure you're asking for the transitions on an uphill, not a downhill.  And all but the flattest of indoors have little uphills and downhills, even if they're not dramatic.    

Make sure the canter is foward enough before the down transition--if the canter has fallen on the forehand, the trot can only be the same.  Sometimes I marvel at the folks who canter around and around trying to 'improve' it, when it's only transitions and gymnastics that improve a gait--not just going around the same as you were...  

Try doing the transition in the middle of the short side... think shoulder-fore in the first corner, transition, then sholder-fore through the second corner, using the bend to get the 'speed' to translate to impulsion.  Try to keep the inside hind... Changing after a diagonal--just before you come to the wall to take the new direction can also help the horse to rebalance.

And the last sounds a bit counter-intuitive, but works for some horses... do canter-walk instead of trot.  Then just tons and tons of transitions--walk-trot-walk-canter-walk-trot-walk-canter-walk... lather, rinse, repeat.  You'll build the strength and coordination needed and one day you'll ask for a walk and instead get this lovely trot and there you are.

 

[Larri DB]

Thanks for replying...phew, was beginning to feel that we were invisible

We do use voice aids - a lot, probably way too much still. At one point it was the only guaranteed way of getting INTO canter (that's years of ground work for you!)

She knows that a "Safira....." or "Attention...." is an oomph or upwards transition cue.  "aaaaannnndd........" is the calming, slowing one.

Hips is the key by the sounds of it...damn, I'm having big problems there atm, to the point where I actually had to stop riding last week - I was so stiff through my right side, Safi and me were just fighting each others bodies / movement - not a great session. Osteopath has banned me from riding this week until I'm better aligned.

Must concentrate on the timing too - have been tending to do it on the long side, no wonder she's running on  

Canter to walk...Mwwwahahahaha, this will take some real work to get!!!

[shoveltrash]

oops!  i JUST noticed this thread....you aren't invisible!!!!
re: transitions
SEAT SEAT SEAT!  i worked transitions initially on my horse with a loose rein, walk to trot to walk, using my seat.  it's all about what Pintopiaffe talked about - the movement of your seat/hips.  if you *stop* letting your seat move with the horse's movement, the horse will figure out to *stop* him/herself (REWARD correct responses).  it really does improve things.
then you can try trot/canter/trot etc.  but first teach it at an easier gait, without relying on reins for a downward.
believe me, canter to trot is a hard one to teach some horses, i know! <_<
i was able to pick up the reins w/contact after schooling downwards with seat only & it all came together nicely.
others might disagree with this method, but it worked for me!!!
(and my know-absolutely-nothing Appy that i have trained to 2nd level!)
Trish

[franklin]

I have used this method on all manner of horses and it has only not worked on 1 horse in 25years and that was probably my fault. Yes I agree it is all down to the hips, the feel and suppleness and timing. If you are on the left rein your left hip goes into the saddle in a scoop movement (gosh I hope this all makes sense!) I slow the canter down with half halts then I count my left hip movement ie. 1 2 3 then a nanosecond after the 3rd hip movement I put my weight EVER SO SLIGHTLY I mean ever so slighty no rolling or lurching etc!! on to my right hip perhaps thinking the movement to the right hip may be enough, this breaks the sequence, and the horse is slowed down so it can balance its self, but you have to be quick with your movement/balance so as to not unbalance the horse, or he will go  plunging downward. I have had on the odd occasion to lightly close my fingers around the right rein at the same time as I move my weight to the right hip to back up the aid, and almost never have had to use it again.
Yes I to would also add the voice aid with the other aids I think it is a very good and much under used aid.
Jenny :

[Alexandra]

Guys thanks so much for your replies. Only just come back to this to see if someone finally replied....and you have...and they're great!

Between now and posting my original plea for help we've been really working on this and not avoiding it.
Funnily enough I have discovered that the voice is the key (at the moment) with it. He's so responsive to the voice on the lunge (always has been) and will strike off immediately if I say cAnter (emphasis on the A). Tried this whilst on his back and the effect is quite similar - he's sometimes a bit slow into it but no hollowing or rushing it's more a case of getting his legs in order then striking off once i've asked.
Being an ex racehorse there was no way I could forcibly pull him up at the top of the gallops (I was his "lass" at the racing yard) so I taught him to pull up by saying whoa (just once very low and quiet), standing more upright (rather than forward position) and relaxing my reins (big trust required but I do and did always trust him). So now I've tried saying whoa quietly and trying to sit taller and relax (not hang on) with my hand.
It works, we do come back to trot but at the point he takes his first trot step I find myself going rigid and instead of softly absorbing the new movement/change in pace I ricochet off him instead. I tried walking the hips (excellent description and it makes sense) but again I tense up doing that. My hand sort of freezes, my thigh grips and I almost get left behind for the first trot stride...any hints on this new problem? (we've got the coming quietly back to trot bit but then I upset the apple cart by going rigid).

Sorry very long waffle above but your hints and tips so far have made a lot of sense and i'm willing to try all approaches on this. From avoiding canter in schooling for 2 years, then attempting them and both of us getting frustrated and upset for a year things are finally coming together but this final piece needs to fall into place. He's 16 now and didn't stop racing until 12 but you're never too old to learn right?!