Different Methods Of Training

[Camacoona]

I have recently bought and, read the book Pathfinder Dressage, and quite frankly, has left me with more questions than I had before!!  ( I'm not saying it was a bad book, far from it, I enjoyed every chapter!!  

  People talk about the differences in the different classical schools. I am assuming that these are subtle differences, however in my reading of various books and articles, my findings seem to highlight some quite remarkable differences.  For example, the Iberian Classical methods seem to foster lightness and collection while the French school keeps their horses more forward, and concentrate more on positioning the horse's head and neck via the reins.  Am I correct??  I trained as a BHSAI qualifying in 1997 but nowhere have I had such training and education.  My classical riding training has been of the Iberian School, and so I don't know what the differences are between this method and other classical schools.

Then it comes to competition dressage training.  From my reading all methods of training, such as the German method and the Dutch method are derived from the Classical Schools, so what makes these system so un-classical? I don't really know much about these other systems other than in many cases, many feel they contort the necks and outlines of the horses.  

Can someone please help me to clarrify things a little.  (out of sheer interest and personal 'professional' development)

1) What are the major differences between the various classical Schools?
2) What makes some of the European Competition Dressage Training un-classical?  (appart from the more obvious, gnetle methodology)
3)  What are the major Differences between the so called German Method and the so called the Dutch Method of copetition dressage training? (and any others??)

Thanks all!!    

[rach]

Hi,

The relative similarities and differences in various schools is quite a fascination of mine and crops up on a quite regular basis on some of the classical dressage forums. Mostly this tends to concentrate on the differences between French and German classical systems, of which there some significant differences - you may like to read Racinet  on this - but by and large many people tend to settle on the conclusion that the principle differences these days lie not between eg French and German classical systems so much as between classical and competitive training systems - in which sadly there does seem to be a greater discrepancy between the two. Personally I tend to think of competitive dressage in its current incarnation largely as a b*****disation of the German classical system. The FEI does purport to base its formulations on classical principles but you have to wonder at times with all the BTV horses you see even at high levels of competition.

French classical systems tend to concentrate on achieving balance before movement and central to this philosophy is the relaxation of the jaw as achieved by Baucherist flexions. German systems concentrate more on balance achieved through movement. My experience of Iberian classical methods (specifically, Portuguese) is that there exist elements of both systems within them.

One thing is for sure - each system is representative of the culture that shaped it and the horses available to the riders of that culture during the shaping process.

HTH

Rach
My Webpage

[baeloclaudia]

Somebody directed me to this site the other day, can't remeber who, sorry. But I wasted all afternoon reading it - fascinating and well written. I rode with clear thoughts in my head today, which is always a help!


My Webpage

I hope this works. Apologies in advance if it doesn't!

Edited to add - smashing it works!! But its not MY webpage, its someone elses!

[sam&anita]

hi...just want to say something about the dutch training methods....at first, please don't think all the dutch train their horses the same way. but what you probably mean is the method that sjef janssen and anky van grunsven use. it is a training methode in which you ride the horse very deep and round, but as they both say: never try this at home on yourself. make sure you have a good instructor who can help you with this otherwise you will hurt your horse. i have to say it works for them. personally i wouldn't use this method, my training is mostly the germain way even though i ride an andalucian horse. my vision of training is: find a method that fits both you and your horse. i decided i want to train the germain way, but would like to end up with a spanish light contact. before this can happen i have to train my horse in working the right way, using his back and hindquarters. the most inmportant thing to me is his health and happyness. so who can say what is the right way to train......everybody has his own vision on this.

[Jolene]

I must admit as well that I've spent hours in that website.  It explains everything so well, although it can be a bit rough at times since the author's first language isn't English.  Luckily though I've offered to edit the grammar/spelling for her and she's taken me up on it, so hopefully the articles will flow better soon.  I tend to think that balance fosters movement AND movement fosters balance.  I think it's very individual in which method you use at which time and would not be surprised to go back and forth numerous times in a single training session.  I think it's one of those wait and see type things where you need to make the decision in the moment.  As for riding deep, I hesitate to even talk about it.  I do not support it at all and feel that it's simply a method for competition riders to dominate their horses so that they'll go consistantly even when they aren't balanced.  Plus the fact that Anky has had two horses die on her recently, both of heart attack doesn't really inspire warm cuddly feelings, but everyone's entitled to his or her opinion.

Jolene & Lady (QH filly)

[cptrayes]

I was going to cut and paste quotes of all the bits in the answers so far that I agree with then I realised there were so many it wouldn't make sense . In particular for me, with two completely different (mentally and physically) 17 hand horses, I really agree with those who say it is "horses for courses". One of mine will often not work forward until after I have put him deep for a couple of circuits and a few walk/trot transitions. The other will not usually round up until he is slowed right down, you can't push him forward into it. On some days, however, other things will work better and sometimes different things in one training session.

For me the big difference between high level competition dressage and classical riding is the weight in the hand. Competition dressage so often seems to have the horse piling weight into the bit and the riders having to set their hands (or rythmically tweak the rein, like one of our Brit riders did, I'm told, at the Olympics)  so as not to let the horse go through the bit and lose the energy out the front. The one thing I really go for the classical approach for is that my horses must stay light in my hand. So they must balance themselves, it is not my job to hold them up ! Of course that means that I may have to wait longer before they are strong enough to manage some movements, but I personally think that's a price worth paying to know that your horse is producing the work without having to lean on your hands as a crutch.

C.

[ros]

Gosh - good thread.  I agree that the basic difference between classical and competition schooling seems, sadly, to be largely down to the issues of "outline" and - as cptrayes puts it - "weight in hand".  Competition riding appears to be a question of what the uninitiated think *looks* pretty (the dreaded Outline) and not what actually works, and for me the lightness, the responsiveness and the relaxed attitude of a well-balanced, well-ridden horse is paramount.  Doesn't matter whether you're riding a £250K dressage horse or a family cob - they can all benefit from thoughtful, educated riding, and they can all give you a much more enjoyable ride (for ALL concerned   ) for it.

[Mossy]

I must admit as well that I've spent hours in that website. It explains everything so well, although it can be a bit rough at times since the author's first language isn't English. Luckily though I've offered to edit the grammar/spelling for her and she's taken me up on it, so hopefully the articles will flow better soon.

Great news. I am a total ignoramus with a working knowledge of comparative anatomy but I do like to understand why I am striving for as well as what. I am printing off installment by installment but would be grateful for less scientific paper like language.