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Author Topic: Taking A Contact?  (Read 1801 times)
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franklin
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2004, 08:09:36 PM »

Hi candypony,
I have been thinking  about your problem for sometime, yes I totally agree re saddles backs teeth etc, but what do you feed her?
Over too many years I am going to own up to, feeding is a great factor in the equation of a happy relaxed horse. If she is not relaxed, there will be no rythm, correct use of her energy, sane brain! the jaw will not relax so the front end of the horse will not get out of the way to make room for the back end to come under, the list is endless and believe me I have been there!.
I have owned a pure bred Andulusian so I do know how they react to things!.
My present horse is nearly 18 hands half clydesdale quarter WB and quarter hackney and until I got the feed ratio correct FIREWORKS!!. even now the slighest bit too much and I have a stroppy nag on my hands.
Andulusians are bred to live on very poor fodder and thrive.
Do you feed garlic? I have known many horses that can not cope with it and become to put it mildly "stupid".
Do you feed carrots my vets says never more than 4 a day high sugar content -laminitis risk.
Molases is another problem feed - colic-sillyness etc.
flaked maize and flaked pea -  Rocket fuel!
Haylage- too strong if fed too much in relation to level of work/ best mixed with good meadow hay.
Addertives of any kind just may send a horse over the top
My Sam has per day:
12lbs meadow hay
12 haylage
half pound calm and condition per day split into 3 feeds with a handful of Spillers ready grass in each feed.
4 carrots
We hack 3 times a week for approx 1 to 2 hours each time ( I live in the Peak District so our hacking is very steep work)
We school 2 to 3 days on the longreins/ridden
He still has enough energy to play silly b****rs when I put him out in the paddock
He was given by mistake while I was away 3 feeds a day of a half pound of C&C cubes " Raving Lunatic" was the discription.
He is round bonny and very muscular, in fact he lost condition with the higher level of feed because he was fretting/unsettled.
A good nags man I know has a lovely saying "Don't feed a fight"
Gosh I don't mean to sound as though I am preaching and please don't take offence, I know just how disheartening things can be but hope some of the above can help you.
I have help many "naughty" horses on the long reins and got their head right so to speak so I do sympathise with you.
Keep me posted I really would like to know how you get on
Jenny Franklin  
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Candypony
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« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2004, 03:45:16 PM »

Hello again.

Jenny - thanks very much for your thoughts.  Candy gets fed ad lib meadow hay, and 2 feeds each containing a level scoop of hi fi and a small 1/3 scoop of calm and condition.  She also gets cortaflex powder (she had a bad kick on her hock which had to be sorted out using arthroscopy when she was 4), garlic (not heard of this causing problems before?!), a tablespoon of linseed oil (she cribs after feeding and this was recommended as a digestive aid) and occasionally a carrot or two.  I know from experience that anything with molasses is a very bad idea where she's concerned (!) but I have fed unmolassed sugarbeet with no problems.  I'm not feeding it at the moment though as she's holding her weight quite easily this winter.  In the summer I add oestress to her feed which does seem to help her season regularly rather than being almost permanently stroppy! Does that sound too much? Wrong stuff?

In terms of exercise she gets hacked out once or twice a week (weekends only in the winter unfortunately), and schooled/lunged/in hand work three or four times (ie exercise 5 - 6 times per week).  We're lucky enough to have an indoor school at the yard so it's very easy to chicken out of bad weather! She's also turned out (in a large, mixed herd of around 30 horses) each day for at least 6 hours in the winter and overnight in the summer.

Anyway, the physio saw her again a couple of weeks ago and was actually very pleased with her, she did a bit more work on her poll area (she managed to damage this area overnight almost a year ago - a complete mystery), and released her back that was tight after all the bucking but generally her muscles were more relaxed and she's definitely starting to muscle up in all the right places.  She's also gradually becoming quieter in her mouth and the contact so I do think we'll win that one eventually - it's just going to take time and patience.

I've been on holiday since so she's had a mini-holiday for a couple of weeks - we're just about to get going again over the xmas break although it looks like she might have outgrown her gp as well as her dressage now so I'll have to get the saddler first.

Does it sound like I'm not covering any bases with the above?  Candy is, without a doubt, the most talented and sensitive horse I've ever had the privilege to ride - in fact I feel like I'm playing a constant game of catch up with my riding ability as she deserves to be ridden in the same way.  We have a good relationship overall and most of the time butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, but the occasional tantrums are getting increasingly scary.  All ideas gratefully received!
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those doing it - Chinese proverb

Sally - West Sussex, UK

franklin
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2004, 10:44:35 PM »

Hi me again.
Just a thought I give Sam a joint flex preparation (can't remember its name possible Pro joint) but I can not give him the full maintanence level sends him really crakers he can take only half a teaspoon a day. On the full M/level he was horrendous, quite dangerous.
Hi fi has this got mollasses in, ready grass is just plain dried grass
I don't know how big your scoop is so I can't comment on amount, may be it would be worth weighing out how much she has?
Also weighing out her hay, I can't remember how big she is but approx 12/16 lbs of hay a night should keep her happy and as she is turned out during the day to grass  another 4lbs for breakfast and 4lbs when she comes in then her night hay total of about 20/22lbs a day. Sam is a good doer but if it turns cold I up the hay/haylage ration by up to 10lbs a day. (yesterday was so cold here snow and ice) winter fuel for his tummy.
As for damaging herself over night she may have got cast during the night but freed herself before the morning.
I am very  jealous of you having an indoor school available I would give my eye teeth to have one. I look like worzzle gumage with so many layers on to keep warm !!!.
Jenny
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ros
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2004, 07:04:50 PM »

Jenny - I LOVE that saying "Don't feed a fight"   Smiley  Smiley   Nothing truer!

I also agree wholeheartedly that incorrectly fed horses can sometimes fret off their weight rather than benefit from extra rations.  I'm firmly of the opinion that inappropriate feeding (along with unsympathetic riding and uncomfortable tack) is one of the chief causes of "badly-behaved" horses.

(That's by way of an aside on this thread, I should add, and not a judgment of the problem in hand  Smiley .)
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suzysparkle
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« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2004, 11:39:55 PM »

I had a similar problem with my last horse. Anyway, I had some lessons from a brilliant instructor and she got me to do the following;
Spirals round a cone to warm up, yeg yielding back out from a tight circle in walk.
Lots of leg yielding, then cantering after reaching the track
Lots of transitions on a circle
Turns on the forehand after halting from trot then straight into trot again
polework

Anyway, keeping a reasonable contact consistently and only using seat and legs it really worked. She was swinging through her back and working in a nice light contact and really bent round my inside leg to outside hand.

Hope this is of help!!!
 
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virtuallyhorses
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2004, 07:11:43 AM »

This sounds like a perfect candidate for one of Ramon's (my Spanish Instructor) games.    Basically she needs to understand long and low (true long and low where the horse is both engaged and pushing the bit forward).  

I'll try to explain the game as best I can, please take all descriptions at their most generous.

This game may take minutes or months (many sessions obviously Cheesy).  The goal of the game is to have a horse which looks to work long and low as a response to contact.   It is played at the trot (later you can also play at the canter but it is slightly different) - you sit back and simply ride, the horse does all the work.   Sit back and to the inside - take up a short (not nasty, not EVER pulling back) contact on the inside rein and a light contact on the outside, so that you horse is strongly flexed to the inside and ask your horse to trot on a small circle.   The game is that if the horse raises it's head, hides from the contact or has a hard contact then you bring your inside hand to your hip and the horse must circle very tightly.  You do not allow the horse to slow to a walk - it must trot forward.  If the horse begins to soften its mouth, relax its neck, put its head down and forward (any or all) then you release your outside rein a little more so that the horse may stretch its neck a little more. If the head comes up, contact hardens etc etc then the circle tightens  (you must sit back! and inside).  

Even if the horse doesn't 'get it' at first - change the direction every few minutes (obviously changing the contact etc) so that the neck isn't hurt or the horse (or you) get too dizzy.   The key to this game is that you must keep the horse working and not work yourself - i.e you can just sit there - don't get annoyed or anything - just hold the rein and immediately give when the horse gives.  You must be very responsive and allow the horse back onto a larger circle whenever it starts to try going long and low (pushing the bit) and also bring it back onto a small working circle if it decides to rush, stick its head in the air etc.  As the horse begins to understand you ask for a little more until the head is down near the ground and still pushing the bit (while the horse works properly from behind)

I hope the description doesn't sound crude - it is both a very simple and sympathetic game and quite complex because you must know when to give and how.   The horse gets to work things out on its own and because you aren't constantly nagging at it or fiddling with its mouth it doesn't see your hands as the 'enemy' if you get what I mean.  In fact, you really do very little and this seems to both calm and confuse the horse a little. They seem to 'understand' that the rider is not 'doing' anything and it is therefore fighting with itself - instead of fighting it then simply tries different things to work out how to get out of this uncomfortable position - you reward the desired behaviour - going forward and down.   This is great for the horse because the desired behaviour is also the comfortable behaviour - win\win!  

 
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